Visalus Versus Vemma: Uni-Level Versus Binary Comp Plan
I am posting this two great NetWork Marketing Industry Leaders opinion why their compensation plan is the best one. Both gentleman have an excellent proven track record in the Industry.
It is an old discussion, however always very interesting as 90% of the Direct Selling Industry has either a Binary or an Uni-Level compensation plan. Straight Level – Party Plan and (Forced) Matrix are other possibilities.
Both Blake Mallen – ViSalus as BK Boryeko – Vemma have excellent presentation skills and are integrating Social Media as Facebook and Twitter in their Marketing strategy.
This is not a pitch for ViSalus or Vemma, I am posting this for educational purposes. The Uni-Level versus the Binary Compensation plan. The pro's and con's.
I love to have YOUR opinion, which pay plan is your favorite? WHO WON? Please comment below.
A Must See For Newbies and Professionals!
Blake Mallen's Chief Marketing Officer and Co-Founder ViSalus, Top Ten Reasons Networking Leaders Love ViSalus Uni-Level Compensation Plan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzkvZsqRxNg
BK Boreyko CEO and Co-Founder Vemma, Top Ten Reasons Networking Leaders Love Vemma's Binary Compensation Plan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp_qS61E7Jg
Kyle Pacetti, Visalus Top Earner Opinion:
Let me start by saying that I don’t think Vemma is a bad company, bad product or bad people. Compared to a lot of MLM Company’s they would stand out. The following is just my opinions on the comparison with Visalus. I have been a Visalus distributor for 19 months and very familiar with the Visalus compensation plan considering I do 8 million per month in sales and I am the top earner in the 6 year old company. Please understand you should judge the tree by the fruit it produces. Documentation will beat conversation any day of the week.
After a quick review here is my opinion on the comparisons. Vemma requires a distributor autoship of 60 or 120 RP to qualify to be paid. Visalus allows preferred CUSTOMERS to count for your autoship requirement of $125. Furthermore Visalus gives you your autoship free if you have 3 times your autoship volume in preferred customer volume. This creates retention because someone getting product free don’t quit.
Vemma is a old school 1/3 – 2/3 binary pay plan. The problem with this and all binaries is that you will be unbalanced and that means banked volume that you will never get paid on. Furthermore you are primarily paid on 1/3 of what you do (your lesser leg) that’s why they call it the profit leg. Vemma is also a FLUSHING binary with some year end flushing calculation of 15x your profit leg or 150,000 rp. With Visalus having a unilevel with progressive placement you can potentially be paid on every dollar generated in your organization. No balance required for commissions and the only balance required (60/40) is for rank advancement. This is a major plus for Visalus considering most people who stay in any company will end up with a run away leg.
No activity for 24 months causes a brand partner to be terminated? I never agree with terminating a position for inactivity. Why do we build MLM’s? We build a company so that at some point it will grow without our involvement. That’s called building a walk away income.
10% matching bonus is another way of saying check match. The problem with check match is your getting a percentage of a percentage paid to someone else. A typical check match would look like this: Bob generates $1,000 in sales and earns around $100 for his efforts. You get a 10% check match $10 or 1% of the total sale with a maximum allowed to earn on this. Visalus decided to use a depth bonus and not to use a check match. The depth bonus pays 2% and up to 4% of total sales with no maximum.
Meet Kyle Pacetti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Zu81wiPyU
I love global bonus pools because it causes crossline to work together. I was shocked to find Vemma has tied this earning to cycles as well. The problem with this is that it keeps you focused on cycles instead of pushing total volume and pushing people through the ranks. Visalus Global bonus pool is totally earned through helping people increase in rank and is paid on total volume.
I’m glad to see Vemma with some onetime bonuses. Vemma’s $414,100 onetime bonuses are good compared to most in the industry however compared to Visalus’s 1 million it doesn’t look so good.
With just a quick glance it looks like a 20% skimming off the top for the company before payout. 999.99 = 800 reward points. Visalus is paid out on a dollar for dollar program. In most companies you will have BV or business volume. This will be the amount of a sale in dollars. Then you will have a PV (point value) RP (reward points), this will be the amount that the company is willing to pay commissions on. If the BV and the PV are not equal then the company is skimming off the top. Visalus BV and PV are equal with no skimming.
Tom Alkazin, Vemma Top Earner Opinion:
Just a few points just to defend Vemma’s bonus plan. It’s funny that from the tone of Blake’s video to the comments of the ViSalus distributors in this thread, they all start off by degrading either the binary plan or Vemma’s plan in particular. Responding to this is not the way I like to invest my time, but I do think a few things needed to be added. First off, I tip my hat for the execution ViSalus has pulled off with their 90 day challenge and car program, but to suggest that they are the innovators of these promotions would really be a stretch.
Those of you that can remember the Body for Life challenge program Bill Phillips created and the first Caddi Mary Kay gave away would take exception to this claim. Nothing against not inventing something, Steve Jobs didn’t invent the computer, mp3 player, smart phone or the online music store, he just executed the ideas better.
To say that Vemma’s 1/3 -2/3 plan is ‘old school’ is a bit far off since unilevel plans are actually older school and to say no balance is required is very misleading. If you don’t have more than one leg generating volume in any plan, you’re not going to be paid on it. So if you want to call it balancing one more leg or qualifying two more legs, just let people know the truth and they’ll go to work. There’s nothing shocking about rank advancing, we measure it in helping people cycle more, that is generating more business, nothing shocking about moving to the next level.
Finally, the comment of ’20% skimming off the top for the company before payout’ is extremely offensive. Just the term ‘skimming’ exudes illegal activity. This coming from an industry top income earner is even more disappointing. Just to clarify, Vemma in 32 oz bottles is this company’s number 1 selling product. $63 cost, 60 CV. Other products like the million can a month selling Verve energy drink are $5 more, why? Because it’s a heavier product and costs more to ship. Rather than confusing things with different shipping rates, Vemma ships a single orders for $9.
The Vemma 2 oz bottles are $10 more, why? because there are 30 small bottles instead of 2 big bottles, those actual costs are simply passed on to those wanting the convenience of sample sizes. If full volume was given, the price would have to double since we have a true 50% payout, the leadership felt that would hurt the end consumer, thus creating less volume. Finally, if greater discounts are offered from the wholesale prices, not fluffed up retail prices, CV is adjusted. It’s very fair and I agree with these decisions.
Meet Tom Alkazin
One last comment, I never get into these types of discussions, you never see me make postings, I don’t have the time to argue or defend. ViSalus is a good company and Vemma is a good company. We have different ways to compensate people. Different isn’t bad, it’s a good thing. BK’s video was a response to a binary bonus plan criticism that Blake made. Some of his leaders asked him to help them explain why binary plans are nothing to laugh at. I’ve been in this industry for 36 years and I’ve never been more successful in my career than in my time with Vemma.
This Vemma plan has paid me $10,800,000 — pretty good for an “old school” plan — so I know it works and is balanced and most importantly, fair. BK made his point by never once criticizing the other comp plan options out there. Something the ViSalus distributors may want to take note of.
One last thought, if my team did $8 million a month I’d be earning around $550,000 a month on Vemma’s pay plan. I don’t think a ViSalus check is even close to that and what I do like better is when we qualify for a rank advancement bonus, we get paid the next month, not over the next 24 to 36 months like ViSalus does. If you took that big check to the bank, they’d tell you to come back in 3 years!
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Excellent Leaders, awesome presentation. Who Won? My personal opinion it is 1 -1. Both compensation plans have pro’s and con’s.
The best quote from the videos…. “it is not up to the plan, it is up to the people”.
I totally agree that its up to each and every one of us to work our business and our success is based on our efforts….with that said, i spent 4 years in Vemma, great products no doubt, but the plan was very difficult to build. In just a little over a month with Visalus I am one of the BMW earners did that in 27 days, and now making a couple thousand a month…..something it took me 4 years to achieve in Vemma…I am the same person I was then…so to me without a doubt Visalus plan rewards the smaller people right out of the gate, making it a winner to me
Hi Ted.
Have to go 5 – 4 to Visalus.
Both have thier own twists, love the ‘waiting room’ concept by the way, but binaries generally are a great deal for the top ‘big hitters’ and the company but not nearly as good a deal for the lower levels or new distributors who rarely gets even a small pergentage of the commission they hoped for. There is also something very demotivating in watching one side of your business running away while the other struggles to get into gear.
Unilevel plans can also have their traps designed to keep the company coffers filled with money not paid out from the comp. plan so although you can do well under either system just make sure you never leave any money on the table by understanding exactly how you need to build your group and what you have to do every month to maximise your income.
Regrads,
John
One suggestion if you comment: Put only 1 LINK TO YOUR WEBSITE IN. More links and the software will block you as Spam…. And do also not forget to put 1 link in otherwise you will not get visitors…..
Kathy you’ve been in Visalus for 27 days- so you
are not making 2k every month. Let time play out.
You possibly made 2k your first month which I great! Hopefully that continues for you and you remain qualified
for your BMW. In all my years in MLM seeing people get quick money and qualify for cars fast scares me.
Most people don’t stay qualified and lose the car and resent the people/company.
Out of those 70+ in alaksa who won BMWs in visalus
almost all are not qualified anymore. When those stories start coming up it’s bad news for the current hype.
I wish everyone the best but I agree with BK that is about the leader not the plan AND it helps having a great CEO with a
long term vision.
adam,
My biz partner and I have helped 150 people hit the bmw qualification in 14 months with Vi…the coolest part is 70% of them requalify month after month and as the business is starting to hit momentum…well that number is increasing by a percentage point month after month as we grow!
Also 30 of those BMW qualifiers build VI full time and 7 are Ambassadors and above, a 10 million dollar revenue business growing double digit compounding growth monthly!
I have never seen this before…for leaders in other MLM’s to talk against the BMW is super foolish…WHY? Many people based on their credit, income etc…opt not to drive the BMW, as a leader its your responsibility to teach your people, this business of networking is not about making money, its about keeping the money you make…good stewardship…
Just because you have never likely grown a business so fast, just because you have likely never helped so many people make an income that actually makes a difference for their families in this industry, is certainly a poor reason to speak negatively about something you have zero experience in actually doing…
While most leaders talk about what they are going to do for their team, we are doing it, proving the concept, building a better highway for the masses!
Russ Field and Phil Taneda
1 Star Ambassador
Fitteam90 Enterprises Ltd.
60477620755
I feel the argument BK gave made more sense. Having been involved in both types of plans, the binary offers newer members to get into profit more quickly. It’s also much easier to build a 2-leg system and get paid on volume, not levels, than it is build 5 or 6 or 7 lines and having to ad people to all of them.
Adam,
What i find with most people is they expect people to carry them…I am just giving my personal experience, and in listening to BK state that his BMW program does not require one to stay qualified, well that to me was an out and out lie…in looking at there BMW plan you have to be a qualified Platinum leader cycling 50 times or more AND have a qualified personally enrolled DIAMOND on both sides AND the qualifications are about 18k in volume a month….trust me, been there done that…
Also BK states that they are a team with a system….found that really funny as I had been put on a VEMMABUILDER leg and found that not one person in that group was willing to train or help they simply wanted people to buy there leads..the system is not duplicatable…plain and simple…not one person at the top in Vemma agrees how to build together…the one team one dream concept lasted about 10 mins…
Sorry, but I feel very confident I can maintain 12500 in GROUP volume very easily and Mark,,,,,ummmmm made 2800 first 30 days in Visalus and on track at Regional Director to hit a steady 3k and climbing…everyone has to come to there own conclusions…I watched far too long as the big people kept being handed legs and rewards while the little people kept getting the bonuses taken away….
Visalus works backwards…rewarding people at the bottom and climbing up….my personal opinion and experience is they hit the nail on the head…
I wish all Vemma people the best!
Neither…..I vote equiflex compensation plan.
I am obviously prejudiced towards Vemma. I have no network marketing experience and in 17 months created a 6 figure income working on a very part time basis with Vemma. Today it is a significant 6 figure income and regardless of which plan you prefer- just watch the videos of the leaders. The first sounds like a hyped up promo- maybe perfect for the circus coming into town. The second sounds like a business built on longterm lifetime value of a customer. I agree it seems like you can make money faster promoting a shake and keeping people focused on the first 90 days…..but its not how you start- its how you finish, and I would just encourage everyone to look at the whole picture. From the CEO of Visalus- “Fast-forward to December 2009. At this point, Visalus………was worthless. Sales had dropped from $2.5 million a month to $600,000 over the year.” It’s your future- think past 90 days, steady growth 6 years in a row may now sound super exciting but much more preferable to record highs followed by record lows. Learn from history- so you don’t repeat the same mistakes.
Dennis,
LOL I know the history of all the top earners in Vemma…and how they got there….nice when you can be pulled up the ladder : ) Vemma attacks on Visalus lately are funny, must be they feel the heat?
Point is Visalus breaks outrageous numbers each and every month…..
My opinion about the two videos? BK was totally scripted….Blake is a class act…
I know your story and it was not rags to riches : )
The bashing is getting just plain out of control…..there are many more companies Vemma could pick on
I am totally done with this thread….I know I and many others are happy with our decision…as I hope you are
I agree with kathi -no need to carry on the thread. Not attacking Visalus- I just wrote what the leader said- read his book. As far as my story- you don’t know me- and until you have slept in a car- don’t just what rags to riches is- but I already earned a 6 figure income in traditional business before Vemma- but with Vemma my income has now doubled- so of course I love the company. I can’t speak whether the other V company will succeed or not. But I will take exception to one comment. Scripted,lol- Blake going “mmm well lets say , uh, 10 reasons,lol- just happened to think of 1o, classic.” BK- no script just knows that the #1 recruiting tactic used by the other V company is to reach down into Vemma downlines and offer fast riches to try and recruit and I believe that is his only reason in trying to set the record straight. But as long as you are happy with your decision then I wish you success. For me- Vemma has been life changing but not just for me- but for many people in my downlines who are now earning record incomes. So I will say I wish you success Kathi but please don’t say you know my story when we don’t even know each other. :). I was just smart enough to be dumb enough to follow what my success coaches told me to do, and so far so good.
I’m not attacking ViSalus in any way, just saying that there is a lot of hype regarding how they are marketing. Many of their reps are ruthless in how they are promoting it.
In the long term, you will see the “Vi hype train” run out of steam. This will cause more resent and ill will towards our industry, as more and more people will “qualify fast”, then fall out of qualification for their Beemer. Where do you think the money for their $600+ per month car payment comes from when they lose their qualification? If you said “out of their own pockets”, you’d be 100% right!
I had 2 guys from a company I used to be in try to get me into ViSalus in less than a week. They both said that they’ll be walking across the stage in their Beemers by throwing ViSalus “tasting parties”. I wished both of them all the best. When they realize how much money they’re throwing down the drain with sampling, they may think twice!
Greg (aka NewLIfestyleMentor)
Greg,
You don’t make any sense, to run a 10Million revenue year it cost us 50$ a month for our taxes and shipping on free product per month and the 29$ for the monthly success club…our product was free since our first challenge party – vanishing auto ship! Also to have our challenge parties it costs about 10-50$ monthly depending on how many parties and how active a person is with their parties….so not sure where you get your numbers from, but you make people in this industry who have zero first hand knowledge of what happens in other companies sound so foolish…wonder why we built our business from base concept with no MLM’ers at all, just ordinary people, the working Joe who could, press blend, press play on a DVD and phone someone for a great challenge testimonial…
As for my posts in this regarding Vemma, I am sure its a great company that has helped lots of people succeed both physically and financially, however I make way too much money and have zero time to bash another company when I am in the process of helping another 10 people go Ambassador in the next 30 – 60 days…
Maybe you should focus more on your people and helping them reach whatever goals they want to hit, than worrying about other companies in the industry and what they are doing…create your own culture and thrive or die!
Russ Field and Phil Taneda
1 Star Ambassadors
6047620755
I’ve been in Vemma now for 4 years and I love it! My brother is in Visalus and he loves it. We are both doing great so I guess the key is to love what you do! BK is my hero! I LOVE VEMMA!
Dennis, do I know you personally? NO…but I do know of you, and I do know of many leaders in Vemma that are handed top earning legs, thus throwing them into 6 figure incomes…..I happen to know for a fact Visalus does not hunt down people or pay people to take a spot with them..everyone starts at the bottom…I happen to know for a fact that a leader who left Vemma to go to Visalus on there own, was asked to come back to Vemma and was promised an even better position then when they left…and I happen to know this is not an isolated case with Vemma or many MLM companies out there….by the way, Blake Mallen is a clown and that is why so many of us LOVE him……I am very happy that your doing so well with Vemma…but for them to come out and say its a team business and people building business…well I know so many that worked there tails off and never got anywhere…and i remember filing a complaint and working with compliance on the whole Vemmabuilder issue that we all had, and could not be given any help to solving the problem therefore many many people were left with no help what so ever…
I know that BK takes away from the bottom to sponsor all the likes of the sports teams such as the Suns…and every time there is a change or an enhancement as he likes to call it, its at the bottom peoples expense….just calling it as I see it, I fought hard to stay on board with Vemma to be moved into a group that built and cared….but nope was not allowed because I was not “someone” in BKs eyes….so glad things are great for you…and by the way I read Ryans book and think its an incredible journey he has been on…he is def a man of integrity
Greg, do you know of any company that you do not need to have samples on hand? I bought tons of Vemma products, its how you do business if you want to grow….its smart to have inventory……As far as having to make your BMW payment…hmmmmm….let me think, if I was to go out and by a new car today, I better have a job right? That job is going to have to pay for my car…so therefore I earn my BMW but should I just then quit working and expect to keep the car forever? Same goes with Vemma, they give $400 out on a 2009 or newer BMW ours is 2002 or newer and $600…so therefore, anyone in Vemma that finds a 2009 BMW is looking at atleast $500 or more in payments well they will be making some of there car payment too and when they fall below the requirements they too will have a car payment….Have no idea where all these ruthless promoters for Vi are…I have yet to meet anyone in our team that is ruthless….there is room for so many companies out there…I believe Visalus will be around for a long time….so sorry its causing people to sweat…
Mark, where do you get that you have to build several legs in Visalus? Obviously you do not know anything about them…and we get paid on ALL volume in our group volume….down to peoples subscriptions to the success magazine, customers and even our own personal autoships or orders…..doesnt sound like a crappy deal to me….
Cliff, totally agree, the key is to love what you do….and I love network marketing….but its a whole lot more fun when you do have a team of people to run with and we all are on the same page….
I really am done with this thread : ) Everyone should do what they feel works for them….
I agree Kathi- you should be done with the tread. Start by using common sense- Blake is not scripted- ok lets start out by the truth- Is he being truthful when the camera man walks in on him and he says – you have caught me by surprise? If so, my next question is- Does he always wear a mic when he is sitting behind his desk at work? So with that being said- I will end up with a description of my leader- BK Boreyko- a man of integrity- a man who has never needed to sell the majority of his company to save it from bankruptcy. I think that might be a question you should ask Blake- why did we sell 58% of our company? Why do we not own our own company anymore? Of course I won’t describe your leader, you already have- I think you said he was “a clown”. I also see why you failed at Vemma- takes from the bottom? Are you kidding? The momentum bonus alone added 1,000’s to people’s paychecks. See the difference is Vemma puts money in your pocket whereas you are passionate about a BMW. You will get a BMW faster with Visalus- just like the kid who gets his first job and goes out and buys a car and now is stuck working a job he hates cause he has to keep up a car payment. Vemma’s approach is earn while you learn and once you have a large organization under you- and you have a stable business- then get a BMW and keep it. I would be embarrassed with the amount of Visalus cars that are repossessed.
Anyway, Kathi I would love to carry on this conversation with you but we don’t even know your real name and I have too many new recruits to train. As far as you challenging my income- my first week was 500.00, no one threw me into a 6 figure income but I did earn it. Today my income is a serious 6 figure income with Vemma. I don’t have to lease a BMW- I bought 2 Mercedes with Vemma so I will be taking the cash Vemma offers. If you would like to reveal who you really are- since you have talked about how you failed in Vemma- I would love to see how much you are earning with Visalus- not what you THINK you will earn- but what did you earn last week. I am sorry that I have stirred the coffee on this issue but when you attack a leader- and let’s not forget- BK just responded to the cheesy video from a leader who has already lost his company. That is what is sad- why not ask Blake , Nick , etc why they no longer are majority owners of their own company? Do you ever think to ask that question? You are investing your life following people who have failed before and had to get bailed out due to their decision making- and you don’t think to question it. When the best thing you can say about your leader is he is “a clown” – I really think there is nothing more I can ad. Wish you the best- but please remind people that by the time you throw two bananas and milk into the shake mix to get a good taste- you now have a high calorie, high carbohydrate shake and expect weight gain.
Wow! Yes, I agree that everyone should find what works best for them and go for it. I have been with Vemma 3 years and it is absolutely a people helping people business. I have personally grown and developed myself along the way, something I would not have done on my own. I have created a substantial income through Vemma and made life long friends that are like family to me. I have been coached and trained by my upline and others in Vemma that never earned a dime from me but were willing to help me grow my business. I in turn, have helped many others in my downline create a residual income and develop their self confidence. I’m sorry that your approach to Vemma didn’t work Kathi, but it is a whole different approach than the one I took. I love being partners with a wellness company and making a difference in lives. I know that weight loss is part of a healthy life, but there is so much more than weight loss to health. I do not appreciate your disrespect towards the Vemma leaders. They are people who have been strong and steady and have provided a vehicle for anyone to use that wants to better their lives. People that are not trying to recruit from other companies downlines so they can hang on to their BMW this month. You may not be one of these people Kathi, but I have run across several in your company that have done just that and I am appalled. BK is a business man that has provided a strong and stable company with premium products. A clown no; a dedicated, family oriented, genuine leader, yes. His track record speaks for itself…and he doesn’t wear a microphone to work.
Visalus and Veema are both great companies. Veema has certainly proved it model long term. Visalus is screaming but so was Monavie 5 years ago. As a 35 year full time veteran of the industry I can tell all of you with certainty….How fast you are growing is interesting and exciting…and has absolutely zero to do with whether you will even be in business 10 years from now. And if we are not in business 10 , 20 and 30 years from now we dont have residual income. And without residual income all you have as a networker is a job. Longevity is the key.
Best to save our opinions as to which is best until they have both been in business 10 plus years and they are STILL growing and still have great reputations and are regulatory interference free. Best for you? That is a personal preference. Make your decision and go build it powerfully and without attempting to tear down anyone else.
It is really too bad that a comparison of these two great companies has to result in mud slinging posts. How about championing each other. That is how we are going to prosper. Read this. It will help you survive. https://blog.blissbusiness.com/united-we-stand-divided-we-fall-the-future-of-network-marketing/
Brilliant Post Mr Brooke…
Bottom line is Network Marketing is a great industry with great companies…. Both Vemma and Visalus our great companies… Yes Visalus is experiencing serious momentum right now.. and no i do not see it stopping anytime soon….lets not forget Visalus is a 6 year old company.. not a brand new enterprise… they have gone through some very trying times but they came out of it in dramatic fashion… to accomplish what they have in short order and to have sustained momentum is nothing short of remarkable… wether you love em or hate em… Longevity is certainly important, i do not think anyone can argue that point but nobody has a crystal ball. I continue to expect great things from BOTH companies and both companies leadership. First rule of thumb in Network Marketing is NEVER cut down the competition… One of the most Profound statements I have ever heard and one I live by is “What you say about others, says far more about Yourself then it will ever say about your intended target” Mind your words carefully especially in a public forum! I wish the best for everyone who takes the time to read this board… Lets lift up this industry together and in union.. A rising tide raises ALL boats!!
Network Marketing is great. My take is to “GET IN WHERE YOU FIT IN.” Build it big and keep helping people get what they want.
Hi Ted,
To be honest after watching both video’s i think your post needs to be re-titled to “ViSalus vs Vemma”
NEITHER person stuck exclusively to the topic of COMP PLAN STRUCTURE, although I found Blake far more engaging to watch. Having said that, you don’t win a comp plan comparison buy being more entertaining. I work with a company who has a HYBRID BINARY. Yes we build 2 teams however we have elements of the uni-level built in with matching bonuses etc. I certainly don’t feel either video represents other companies with similar structured comp plans as a whole.
Some Key take home points for all
#1 – Let’s be network marketing professionals please and not attack other people or companies. If you throw mud, you only lose ground
#2 – Like it or not, “deals” get done in ALL companies regardless of their comp plan structure.
#3 – Yes it IS easier to build 2 teams than 3, 4, 5 or 6 but YES even in a Binary if you think you only need to personally enrol 2 people then go play the lotto
#4 – Car funds are always based on performance and no matter the rank they are given, if you cant hold the rank, you better be able to make the payment or be willing to hand back the keys
#5 – If people will BUY your products when they are not making money, then you have a good foundation. If people only keep taking them because they are making money from the comp plan or because the products are free, then the comp plan wont save you long term
#6 – Both companies have pioneered some great IDEAS we can observe & learn from, so lastly
#7 – Big people talk about IDEAS, Average people talk about THINGS & Small people talk about OTHER PEOPLE
We have enough people who are negative about our industry out there to lets not add to that side of the scale from within 🙂
I really am having a problem with what I am reading on some of these posts. The finger pointing, the name calling etc. This is all the stuff that Eric Worre talks about when he talks about going Pro vs. being an Amateur. We are all in the wellness industry. We are all in the network marketing industry. We ALL need to show a unified front for the sake of the industry no matter what company one decides to go with. There are pros and cons for each plan, and each company.
If people need to jump from company to company until they find their niche, that’s fine. The only issue I have with that is when they also attempt to go down into the downlines of their previous companies and try to take people with them. Whether one admits it or not, that wrecks havoc on those remaining business builders, but I guess that’s just business. I will always raise an eyebrow to anybody or any organization who has to head hunt and rip people from other companies when there’s more than enough people outside of network marketing to approach. Like it or not, that’s an integrity issue.
I’m a person who’s made it to Silver level in Vemma, not a high level, but it’s higher than I achieved in Amway back in the late 80s. Personally, I know I haven’t done everything required for greater success. It’s not the marketing plan, it’s not the product, it’s not when I got in or where I got in. It’s ME. And even though many in my upline have decided to move to Visalus, We’ll just figure out from here who to plug into and I’ll just quote Bk and say, I am going to have a hell of a story to tell when I reach Ambassador. This product has changed my life, and for that, the company gets my loyalty for the time being.
For me, the leadership of the company is MORE important than anything; the marketing plan, product etc. How long a company lasts, depends on the leader of that company. What’s the character of the man or woman who leads it? Will they pack it in and sell to some corporate entity one day, or do they truly have a mission that’s bigger than them or the bottom line? This is what I see in Bk Boreyko. When I first got in Vemma, one of the things that locked me in was that man. I knew there was something special about him. It was that same special thing that reminded me of Rich DeVos and Jay Van Andel of Amway. When I took a look at other network marketing companies in between Amway and Vemma, THAT was the thing I didn’t see with those companies.
So I will cast my lot with Vemma. I can’t speak for other companies, but I know there’s a firm foundation there. I’ve been to the company in Arizona, and I have met the man. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.
well I am glad that reading session finished Ted provides a dynamic amount of content and always puts the cats among the pidgeons. It’s better than going down town watching the yobbo’s brawling so glad I am with the Best.
I’ll quote the amazing words from VISalus CEO & Co-Founder Ryan Blair:
“They can copy us, but they can’t catch us…”
With companies like Vemma and many others creating new 90 Day and XX-Day Challenges and rolling out inverted car incentives and 3-for-FREE, it’s exciting to be apart of the company that’s CREATING the trend and not the ones that are tagging along behind.
So is one better than another? I think certain things about both strike a persons fancy. So to each their own! I, myself, am I big fan of the “fairness” of the unilevel, and it doesn’t hurt that I’ve created a multiple six-figure income in a that plan in just a few short months.
My opinion, first of all, is that no matter what kind of a binary or unilevel plan it is, we need to invest into the success of these people in order to create real long-term results.
There are more and more of “intelligent” plans coming up, that bring together the advantages of both Unilevel and binary plans, and there are two sides to that.
Luckily, the commission plan is not everything. Otherwise, such companies as Amway and Herbalife, would have disappeared long ago.
However, if you want an answer to your quite specific question, I have a strong preference for the unilevel plan for two reasons:
1 / EQUAL OPPORTUNITY: The binary plan, in my opinion, is “against nature” ? cause this way you end up with personally sponsored people in your genealogy, who are situated in different places, and also unequally. And this place either favors or disfavors their commissions. Clearly, for the same work, because of a “spill-over”,distributors or entrepreneurs do not receive the same financial and / or qualifying recognition.
The place in the genealogy has thus its importance. And a novice who is just starting will only understand it later.
We’ve all heard phrases like: ?I’ll put you in a good position”, “You will be paid on spill-over”, “I am putting you on the outside” and so on ….
Whereas the only true and proper position is, and should be, the same for everyone.
I happened to have to give recognition to people who, for the same work, or even for a much lesser work, received a qualification and were paid higher commissions than the others because of their position in the genealogy. And this is unbearable, this is what I call “against nature” – since in our profession, it is the commitment and the work that must be rewarded, not the place you got when you were signing the contract.
2 / Whether it’s a Unilevel or Binary plan, in order to develop a powerful and a rewarding network on a long term basis, we need to get personally involved with a minimum of 4 to 5 people, who, if everything goes well, will become 4 to 6 groups who will then become 4 to 6 international organizations. The Unilevel has an advantage of immediately setting up the logical basis of this construction and therefore shows a clear direction to be taken. As to the binary, it has a tendency to maintain the illusion that everything can be built with two people.
Thank you for your site, so enriching and bringing up more transparency and information about our Industry of Network.
Kathi B. I know you said you were done with the thread but I find these statements by you very intriguing. You said:
?I happen to know for a fact that a leader who left Vemma to go to Visalus on their own, was asked to come back to Vemma and was promised an even better position than when they left? and
?but I do know of you, and I do know of many leaders in Vemma that are handed top earning legs, thus throwing them into 6 figure incomes? and
?LOL I know the history of all the top earners in Vemma?and how they got there?.nice when you can be pulled up the ladder?
A couple of people here seem to be saying you are not credible and they seem to be implying that you are just a disgruntled quitter. Something in what you are saying though rings true to me. Can you elaborate a little on some of these comments?
Kathi B. The reason i ask is because i was recently offered a “spot” by Ken Stewart if I was “serious”
Interesting to see how two companies with different comp. plan but similar products are engaged in discrediting each other in a battle neither one will win, time will tell, but explosive grow is not everything, like somebody here already comment, we have seen that in others companies and look at them now, few years later.
For the ones that are in this industry for a while, i do not trust a company who uses cars as bait to enroll people, better give out good money to the ones who earned it, and let them choose whatever they feel like to do with it, look to me more appropiate and decent. The other question, Binary or Unilevel, why not both?, why not the best of both world and use the two at the same time?, the company i am working with right now do have a Binary Hybrid comp. plan and you are capable to make money from your first day and keep earning it, if you keep growing your business and helping the people in it. i am very happy with this Comp. plan and so are everyone in my downline (at least the ones who do work).
One other thing, i do not trust companies who grow like a miracle, there you have the Monavie example, better to grow steady and solid, the company i do work with has enroll 350,000 distributors in almost five years time and nobody talk about us, i like that, not hype, but steady grow, 350,000 distributors in six countries in less than five years, i am very happy with this numbers, and what about our product?, well, not hype either in here, nobody talk about us, however, John Nelson, the 159th President of the American Medical Asociation (AMA) did say about one of our products: “This product, in my opinion, represents the most important breakthrough in health that I will witness in my lifetime. I think it will revolutionize, change and transform the practice of medicine worldwide and make Dr. Robert Keller more famous than Jonas Salk, who created the polio vaccine”. i strongly doubt that any of this companies mentioned above do have a product of which somebody can say somethi
ng similar, even Benny Hinn is endorsing our products, and still no hype.
And what about leadership? well, our founder it`s a Christian pastor for the last 28 years, was multibillionaire many years before founding our company, just one of his companies has already make close to 3 billion dollar worldwide and still making money, and has another 10 who has produce in excess of 100 million dollars each, it`s a best seller author of books like “Mentored by a Millionaire”,(it`s special for entrepreneurs), “The greatest words ever spoken” (about the life of Jesus), “The richest man who ever lived”, (about King Solomon wisdom) and “A Millionaires Notebook’, (strategies to win) between others, it`s got a mentoring program “The master strategies for super achievers” from which Donald Trump said: ?Steve Scott?s uncanny insights and strategies are so specific and easily applied, I believe they can empower any reader, whether or college student, small business owner, or the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, to achieve levels of success they haven?t yet dream
ed of?, and still not hype, but a firm hand with a clear vision who will make of this company one of the greatest in MLM in the next 10 years, i like that, not hype, but steady grow and a bright future.
Should you be interested in knowing who we are and what we do, it will be a pleasure to help you out, you may not win a BMW in a month, but you can be sure of building a fine team of people based in real and steady checks of which you can change their lives forever with the products we make and use every day, and the way of doing things we got, cheers. [email protected].
I see many people here hating on one company or the other. I do not believe this was the question. If you remove the names of the companies and simply look at the question at hand; Binary or Uni-Level and research the two, you will come to an answer that works for you. As I see it, one is better for short term gain and the other for long term gain. To choose the better of the two you will first have to ask yourself if you are a serious player and is the company in question going to be around for the long haul for that to even matter? We are all moving in the same direction, out of the rat race. We are all a part of the business of the 21st century and you might congratulate yourself. It’s not about changing what you do, it’s about changing who you are! If I think of the great leaders in business and in wealth creation, and what I have learned from them, it is about looking within, strengthening your own self, developing leadership skills. Leadership is what builds a great business on any level. I spend my time studying historical leaders to become the best leader I can be for me and for my team regardless of how many levels there are. Unfortunately, I do not see leadership by many here on this blog entry, rather finger pointing and that’s tragic. Be nice. Remember this business is about caring about the success of those that you bring into the business. After all, they are your paycheck and you are theirs but more important is your reputation, and that follows you forever*
I strongly agree meeka 😉
WoW!!! Awesome breakdowns of the benefits and the weaknesses of the two most powerful compensation structures in the industry!! Im so glad I partnered with a company that has the best of both worlds and a product that the distributor can really generate income off the product alone!!! The weaknesses of the unilevel are offset by the strengths of the binary and the the weaknesses of the binary are offset by the strenghts of the unilevel!! Thanks for sharing this post!!
Let me start by saying that I don?t think Vemma is a bad company, bad product or bad people. Compared to a lot of MLM Company?s they would stand out. The following is just my opinions on the comparison with Visalus. I have been a Visalus distributor for 19 months and very familiar with the Visalus compensation plan considering I do 8 million per month in sales and I am the top earner in the 6 year old company.
Please understand you should judge the tree by the fruit it produces. Documentation will beat conversation any day of the week.
After a quick review here is my opinion on the comparisons. Vemma requires a distributor autoship of 60 or 120 RP to qualify to be paid. Visalus allows preferred CUSTOMERS to count for your autoship requirement of $125. Furthermore Visalus gives you your autoship free if you have 3 times your autoship volume in preferred customer volume. This creates retention because someone getting product free don?t quit.
Vemma is a old school 1/3 ? 2/3 binary pay plan. The problem with this and all binaries is that you will be unbalanced and that means banked volume that you will never get paid on. Furthermore you are primarily paid on 1/3 of what you do (your lesser leg) that?s why they call it the profit leg. Vemma is also a FLUSHING binary with some year end flushing calculation of 15x your profit leg or 150,000 rp. With Visalus having a unilevel with progressive placement you can potentially be paid on every dollar generated in your organization. No balance required for commissions and the only balance required (60/40) is for rank advancement. This is a major plus for Visalus considering most people who stay in any company will end up with a run away leg.
No activity for 24 months causes a brand partner to be terminated? I never agree with terminating a position for inactivity. Why do we build MLM?s? We build a company so that at some point it will grow without our involvement. That?s called building a walk away income.
10% matching bonus is another way of saying check match. The problem with check match is your getting a percentage of a percentage paid to someone else. A typical check match would look like this: Bob generates $1,000 in sales and earns around $100 for his efforts. You get a 10% check match $10 or 1% of the total sale with a maximum allowed to earn on this. Visalus decided to use a depth bonus and not to use a check match. The depth bonus pays 2% and up to 4% of total sales with no maximum.
I love global bonus pools because it causes crossline to work together. I was shocked to find Vemma has tied this earning to cycles as well. The problem with this is that it keeps you focused on cycles instead of pushing total volume and pushing people through the ranks. Visalus Global bonus pool is totally earned through helping people increase in rank and is paid on total volume.
I?m glad to see Vemma with some onetime bonuses. Vemma?s $414,100 onetime bonuses are good compared to most in the industry however compared to Visalus?s 1 million it doesn?t look so good.
With just a quick glance it looks like a 20% skimming off the top for the company before payout. 999.99 = 800 reward points. Visalus is paid out on a dollar for dollar program. In most companies you will have BV or business volume. This will be the amount of a sale in dollars. Then you will have a PV (point value) RP (reward points), this will be the amount that the company is willing to pay commissions on. If the BV and the PV are not equal then the company is skimming off the top. Visalus BV and PV are equal with no skimming.
I don’t know about Vemma’s comp plan or which plan is better comparing the two. What I do know is my wife has lost over 42 pounds on the Visalus products and i have lost 38 pounds. We started part time with Visalus a little over a year ago with no industry knowledge or experience. We are now one of the top levels in the company and have done all of this through following the system and helping others do the same. I’m glad the car program was at the bottom of the comp plan because it is exciting to drive a sweet car that is paid for by the company. I am also glad that we have never paid for our auto ship because we get that for free too. I now promote my business full time and no longer am a roofing contractor. It has changed my life for the better in many ways. So as far as comparing one to another well, find the program that works for you and RUN with it! Your success starts with you!
There are Pros and Cons to both compensation plans – I’m with neither company so have no vested interest in pointing fingers and banging drums (unlike a few of my colleagues have done before me)… the main thing to remember is that however you choose to build your business and whichever company and plan you build your business with, you are judged on your actions and achievements. Act professional and achieve results quietly and with humility and you will go a long way in the industry. Thanks for a great post as always Ted!
i have had the opportunity to be involved with both the uni-level and binary comp. plans, i like what visalus has done with the “waiting room” and the uni-level plan, you can leverage yr business better and reward those who are “sharing”. Somewhere lost in the whole subject are the products, i got involved with the product not the comp plans after making a decision to live a healthier life, visalus to me was a perfect fit, great product that fit my family and my needs. Question some people need to ask themselves is: would you be promoting your company if you werent getting paid? I know I would.
Never heard of Vemma until I listened to this video. You can find the same video on their website.
I am a ViSalus promoter and have no desire to change companies based upon what I heard. Blake Mallen is the Marketing Guy at ViSalus and I think I have seen this video before so I don’t think either video was filmed for this blog.
That being said, I have done other networking/MLM companies and ViSalus is the only one that I was able to start making money within the first 3 weeks. Expectations of the people that join any company is what drives that person’s business. If you have no expectations you will have no business. Oh and you don’t have to have a BMW you can still qualify for a monthly bonus.
ViSalus has always been up front with everything. Just read the literature.
start by saying this weather or not , a company in side network marketing or any business out side of net work marketing , when a business goes into mass momentum like visalus is now all the dirt in every other company comes out bashing them with ads and videos , they go out of their way to try to bring them down to protect their own business , what do i mean by this ? does any one remember back in the days when apple computer and microsoft were bashing each other to no end , telling the whole world why there company is the best , bill gates and steve jobs were buddys that was until one blew up bigger and faster than the other at that time during the 80s 90s , you see one was in momemtum and the other was not ,
all you heard was negitive bs about both companys how they won’t last it will fade out they will be gone , well guess what , both of them companys are still in business today world wide , now lets talk about football , when the dallas cowboy and the san francisco 49ers were in momemtum every one else hated them to no end why ? because they were winners ! and they were very hard to beat they had what all the other teams did not have , momentum ! but in network marketing when a company goes in to momentum , and there has only been a few by the way you can count the companys that has had mass growth in the last 20 years on one hand it only happens once or twice every ten years , than all the hype and the
bashing goes up to a new level in stead of join that company , like the smart people do , they try like hell to knock them down to to their level , i will say it again human nature is this humans hate it when some one they know or a competitive company really figures it out and creates a winning team takes player from every other company in the industry , , for example , when xango and mona vie were in momemtum every one said they would fade out it will not
last and they will be gone , guess what , both of them are still here still going strong , around the world , visalus has a winning team now , they are at this time doing 30 million per month and growing company wide over 81 thousand people joined last month in sept 2011 they are just going to get bigger and bigger , until the momentum comes to a end just like apple computer and microsoft , xango , and mona vie , just like 49ers and the cowboys , they are not going any where they will open up around the world when one market comes to a halt another will open up just like in any business in side network marketing or out side of networking , PEOPLE YOU CAN EITHER COME ALONG FOR THE RIDE BEFORE YOUR DOWN LINE DOES OR JUST SIT THERE AND BE A HATER VISALUS IS GOING TO THE TOP WITH OR WITH OUT YOU , WILL THE MOMENTUM LAST ? NO , IT NEVER DOES , YOU HAVE ABOUT 2 OR 3 YEARS BEFORE IT DOES COME TO A END IT IS YOU CHOICE THERE ARE OVER 3500 MLM COMPANYS IN THE USA LESS THAN 20 OF THEM HAVE EVER WENT INTO MOMENTUM IN THE LAST 50 YEARS , join here https://90dayplan.info
Having been in the networking industry both in MLM and Entertainment, I know the power of residual income is the greatest draw for anyone. People are looking to create lifestyles, not another job. I have experienced the binary as well as the uni level and have explained it this way. I see a uni level as an unfolded binary. If you were in a traditional business and had say 20 trucks, would you only want to be paid on 10 of them? I have always found that when someone feels it necessary to pass judgement or throw stones at someone else, is a sure sign of someone’s fear of something being taken away. We are seeing many companies adopt many of the marketing strategies that is driving Visalus’ growth. The point for all of us is to create a massive marketplace and hopefully be unique in that marketplace. It is encouraging to see other company’s following Visalus’ lead. The model of network marketing is changing with a new crop of gen y’ers and the implementation of social media and the means of delivering a message. If Vemma, or any company for that matter, is smart, they will look to re evaluate their message and the method they are using to convey it. Every comp plan has specifics that should be explored with regards to how the distributors are paid. The stipulations are very clear as to the BMW bonus and the qualifications. Anyone who does not wish to secure their car, can and will receive a $300 bonus for WHAT EVER CAR they have or wish to obtain, or not. Choice. We all make them. Companies are giving individuals vehicles(pardon the pun)to insert their vision and drive themselves to whatever goal they wish to achieve.
So celebrate the fact that new and more inviting incentive programs are being implemented to help so many in this new economy get their win!
Cheers!
Just a few points just to defend Vemma’s bonus plan. It’s funny that from the tone of Blake’s video to the comments of the ViSalus distributors in this thread, they all start off by degrading either the binary plan or Vemma’s plan in particular. Responding to this is not the way I like to invest my time, but I do think a few things needed to be added. First off, I tip my hat for the execution ViSalus has pulled off with their 90 day challenge and car program, but to suggest that they are the innovators of these promotions would really be a stretch. Those of you that can remember the Body for Life challenge program Bill Phillips created and the first Caddi Mary Kay gave away would take exception to this claim. Nothing against not inventing something, Steve Jobs didn’t invent the computer, mp3 player, smart phone or the online music store, he just executed the ideas better.
To say that Vemma’s 1/3 -2/3 plan is ‘old school’ is a bit far off since unilevel plans are actually older school and to say no balance is required is very misleading. If you don’t have more than one leg generating volume in any plan, you’re not going to be paid on it. So if you want to call it balancing one more leg or qualifying two more legs, just let people know the truth and they’ll go to work. There’s nothing shocking about rank advancing, we measure it in helping people cycle more, that is generating more business, nothing shocking about moving to the next level.
Finally, the comment of ‘20% skimming off the top for the company before payout’ is extremely offensive. Just the term ‘skimming’ exudes illegal activity. This coming from an industry top income earner is even more disappointing. Just to clarify, Vemma in 32 oz bottles is this company’s number 1 selling product. $63 cost, 60 CV. Other products like the million can a month selling Verve energy drink are $5 more, why? Because it’s a heavier product and costs more to ship. Rather than confusing things with different shipping rates, Vemma ships a single orders for $9. The Vemma 2 oz bottles are $10 more, why? because there are 30 small bottles instead of 2 big bottles, those actual costs are simply passed on to those wanting the convenience of sample sizes. If full volume was given, the price would have to double since we have a true 50% payout, the leadership felt that would hurt the end consumer, thus creating less volume. Finally, if greater discounts are offered from the wholesale prices, not fluffed up retail prices, CV is adjusted. It’s very fair and I agree with these decisions.
One last comment, I never get into these types of discussions, you never see me make postings, I don’t have the time to argue or defend. ViSalus is a good company and Vemma is a good company. We have different ways to compensate people. Different isn’t bad, it’s a good thing. BK’s video was a response to a binary bonus plan criticism that Blake made. Some of his leaders asked him to help them explain why binary plans are nothing to laugh at. I’ve been in this industry for 36 years and I’ve never been more successful in my career than in my time with Vemma. This Vemma plan has paid me $10,800,000 — pretty good for an “old school” plan — so I know it works and is balanced and most importantly, fair. BK made his point by never once criticizing the other comp plan options out there. Something the ViSalus distributors may want to take note of.
Good points by both companies, and both compensation plans can work well. I thought Visalus plan had some benefits to staying a little more narrow than most uni-level plans? I’m building a Binary now, and it’s kinda nice that I just put someone in my weaker leg, and watch the other volume go under me because of positioning. A good sponsor can make a huge difference as I’ve found out. In a Uni-Level less volume or spillover can come from your upline or from the results of many, so if the industry average network marketer sponsors 2.7 People (and they do) you can benefit from a Binary plan accordingly.
Both companies seem to be great, and a good sponsor can help you in either plan. If you work hard, with focus, and with a purpose, my bet is that you can reach your goals with either one. Best wishes to all of us in this amazing industry!
Love the fact that Vemma compared ViSalus to Steve Jobs and Apple. Did I read that right? ViSalus is the Apple of the MLM industry and they have just begun.
There is no wrong or right. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and to align with whatever company they chose. Real leaders and companies lead by example and don’t have to defend.
Hi EVERYONE!
Meeka Caissie (post #29) has made some very excellent points, imho. One that speaks volumes about character is “Be nice.” Ladies and Gentlemen, this is how we build a business that is to be built for success!
We are in the business of the 21st century – congratulate yourselves! Woe to the 40 – 80 hour per week employees:( Network Marketers have stepped out and became independent of everyone EXCEPT themselves! It is entirely up to you to succeed. That means you still have to work, but this time it is built on Like and Trust with other people. Bashing others is not allowed – period! Because, if you do, sometime it will come back and haunt you or cause people to “sign up” with others – they will never forget what you made them feel like, or even worse, turn those people away from their possible freedom. If I was totally new to the industry and read this blog post, it would not set well with me – I am sure I don’t need to explain that. So, like Meeka says, “Be nice.” Please. In the end it all comes down to how well you BELIEVE in what you are doing is the right thing, coupled with how well you THINK you can help OTHERS succeed WITH YOU.
Anyway, I believe both companies highlighted here, have distinct advantages which have all been quoted above, such as huge quick start incentives, free autoship, 1/3 2/3, huge bonus systems, etc. I am sure that both BK and Blake think that where they are at, is where they should be, and they attempted, somewhat loosely, to be subjective for everyone’s benefit. Unilevel? Bilevel? Only you can decide for yourself and your brand new marketers. After they learn and actually work in the field for awhile, they will ultimately be in the same position. Until then, YOU are the leader! Be nice!
Bob Francis is a member of Global Wealth Trade. Company website: https://gwtopportunity.com/lexi1313.
Well, this is just the type of discussion I love to jump into! In fact, I feel like the mosquito that finds itself flying around and looking down over a nudist camp-gee, there’s so much opportunity, I don’t know where to begin! That’s certainly true of this thread! I’m astounded by the lack of knowledge of binary plans, faulty analysis, and either the unintentional or possibly outright deliberate attempts to mis-represent the facts or intentionally take situations out of context on the part of one leader (Kyle), and the mischarterizations, opinions stated as facts which are not accurate (falsehoods), and lack of knowledge of both company’s pay plans on the part of Kathi. Like the mosquito, I scarely know where to begin!
At the outset, since there is so much misinformation, faulty analysis, distortion, misrepresentation, and opinion portrayed as fact to cover and correct, not to mention an apparent lack of knowledge on pay plans, I’m probably going to have to leave several posts or responses to cover it all, but I promise it will be informative, educational, an entertaining! I feel like a nun teaching in a catholic school-going to have to smack some fingers with the ruler, so spare me the “I’m trashing Visalus” mantra. As famed broadcaster Howard Cosell used to say, “going to tell it like it is.” In other words, a mixed review….I’ll be firm, but fair as a famous boxing referee once said. In the words of Mills Lane, “Let’s get it on!”
Let’s start with Kyle. (I’ll save Kathi B’s misinformed and misguided comments for another post.) I’ll be the first to admit appearances can be deceiving, reminding me of the adage, “You should never judge a book by its cover.” If, just on first impressions created by a picture, I were asked “Which of these two people do you think makes $1 million a year or more?” I’d pick Tom Alkazin. He looks like a million dollar earner. Suit and tie and professional looking. Kyle on the other hand is flashing a gang sign and trying to look and act cool like some 18 year old hip hop artist. The only thing he’s missing is having a ball cap on backwards and some baggy jeans that show his underwear. Either that or he lost a finger in an accident because the finger appears to be missing in his picture…I’m leaning towards the trying to look cool/gang sign option. Seriously Kyle, the picture isn’t going to impress a professional! Most people make decisions based on first impressions as they often will judge a book by its cover.
One would probably not think Kyle had been a five figure monthly earner in Mona Vie (bet he loved the binary plan when he was cashing the checks and promoting the big incomes being earned there by Brig and others at the time-roll video anyone?) and wouldn’t think he was a six figure monthly earner in Visalus. Well, he was in the case of Mona Vie and is in the case of Visalus and you have to give him credit for that…it wasn’t given to him, he earned it, as did Tom Alkazin. In fact, very few people get a free ride to a six figure income, whether monthly or yearly, regardless of Kathy’s misinformed opinion.
By the way, love the statement “Please understand you should judge the tree by the fruit it produces. Documentation will beat conversation any day of the week.” Kyle, I’m sure you’re a great guy, but that statement is only half true (the second part) and it’s about to come back and haunt you in more ways than one! By the way, just because someone has produced some fruit Kyle doesn’t necessarily make them knowledgeable or a good leader! That’s where you’re wrong on the “judge the tree by the fruit it produces.” Not necessarily true! I know more “one hit wonders” than I care to count who aren’t very knowledgeable about the industry, the history of our industry, let alone compensation plans, regulatory compliance, etc., and aren’t considered great leaders. They were just in the right place at the right time and got struck by lightening so to speak and ended up making a lot of money, in spite of their lack of knowledge and leadership skills! (This comment isn’t directed at you Kyle-you’ve had major success in your past 2 programs, so I don’t put you in the “one hit wonder” category-just making the point that you can’t necessarily judge the tree by the fruit it produces.)
Let’s start with some documentation in terms of pay plans, especially the binary plan. History can be a valuable teacher. You and Blake can have an opinion, but facts and opinions are 2 different things, and facts beat opinions! Since Blake apparently does not have a lot of extensive knowledge when it comes to the history of our industry, especially in terms of pay plans, here’s the facts: In the past 20 years, 1) The majority of the fastest growing companies with a consumable type product have been companies with a binary pay plan. 2) Binary plans have created the biggest incomes in the shortest period of time for the greatest number of people. 3) Contrary to popular opinion, binary plans pay out more money to the field, not less money, than unilevel or stairstep plans. Those are the facts! Period-end of story! (I’ll get more into details on a follow up post on the binary plan as I want to focus on Kyle’s erroneous or misguided comments in this post.)
Blake’s anti-binary rant is actually laughable in lieu of the fact that several of the things he roasts a binary for are actually part of his plan! Case in point: the “holding tank.” The holding tank concept is nothing more than a sleight of hand attempt to give a unilevel plan a binary powerleg type effect! (Gotta love the Visalus anti-binary hypocrisy-Blake blasts the binary concept and then turns around and basically implements a binary powerleg type feature to his own plan! LOL!) Kathy, pay attention! Noticed your rant on getting a leg given to you in VEMMA-pay attention, the same “benefit” happens in Visalus!
According to Visalus, “All new personally Enrolled and Sponsored Associates will remain in a Vi-Net ?Waiting Room? on your Level 1 and can be repositioned one time within your organization within 60 days of their enrollment date. While new Associates are in the Waiting Room, all commissions and bonuses are still paid on the normal Weekly and Monthly Pay Cycles. This allows for very fast & strategic team building.” Yes Blake, just like a binary and the powerleg concept or moving someone into a pre-existing position in a binary that has one leg below it already built! In Visalus you can hold someone and a leg you’ve been building for up to 60 days, use that as leverage to recruit a key person, and then place that leg down below the key person you’ve just recruited as an incentive. It’s no different than having someone placed in a pre-existing position in a binary where they would have one team below them, offering someone a powerleg position, or offering someone a spot near the top of a leg in a binary and offering to put people below them! Disguise it, call it something different, or spin it any way you want, but the net effect is the same! Period, end of story! Well, at least Blake got one thing right-it’s a strategy for recruiting and building teams fast!
By the way Kyle, you actually proved the superiority of the binary plan and that VEMMA has a more lucrative plan than Visalus without even realizing it! You mentioned your organization does $8 million a month…according to Business For Home, you’re earning around $135,000 a month..if, and I use the word “if,” if that is fairly accurate, that averages out to around 1.7% payout on the total volume your group produces…($135,000 divided by 8 million = 1.7%) Tom Alkazin according to the Business For Home list makes close to $200,000 a month and his group volume is probably around half to perhaps slightly more than half of your group volume ($4-$5 million a month), putting his percentage at around 4-5% payout on his groups production ($200,000 divided by $4-$5 million = 4-5%, which is 2-3 times the 1.7% percentage you’re collecting…Like you said Kyle, documentation beats conversation!
Or, we can look at it this way….what would earnings be in VEMMA on a group volume of $8 million a month…we know that if the Business For Home list is accurate, it’s good for $135,000 a month in income in Visalus because that is what it claims you’re earning…well, in VEMMA it would be worth around $400,000 or more in monthly income…(around 1400 cycles plus matching bonuses, global bonus pools, etc)…the last time I checked, $400,000 a month is roughly 3 times more than $135,000 a month…Like you said Kyle, documentation (in this case basic math) beats conversation!
Now, in case you think I’m gloating, let me stipulate that once again we’re banking on the fact that the Business For Home numbers are accurate in terms of the income you’re averaging per month in Visalus…if not, let them know, Ted can correct them and then re-publish, and then I can refigure these calculations using any updated numbers. After all, unlike some here who just make stuff up and make unsubstantiated statements based on their opinion or misinformed or erroneous information they’ve read or been told, I want to be as accurate as possible so that the correct conclusions can be reached.
Even if they are off somewhat, they’d have to be off by a huge amount in order to dramatically change the results-in other words, your average monthly income would have to be considerably higher than what it is reported to be, but even if it was twice as high, it still wouldn’t change the overall conclusions! Even doubling your income, assuming that Business For Home has underestimated your earnings by 50%, at $270,000 a month you’d still be at just under 3.5% payout on your group’s $8 million a month production (less percentage wise than Alkazin at 4-5%), and even if we doubled your income to $270,000 a month its still $130,000 short of what you’d be earning in VEMMA per month (around $400,000 a month) on that same $8 million! Hard to argue with the numbers and conclusions! Math is math! Told you that the documentation beats conversation comment was going to get you!
Let me take your points in order, beginning with “Vemma requires a distributor autoship of 60 or 120 RP to qualify to be paid. Visalus allows preferred CUSTOMERS to count for your autoship requirement of $125.” Not so fast Kyle! First, you make it sound like you don’t have to have an autoship order in Visalus, that its only a requirement for VEMMA, and that simply isn’t true! Like VEMMA, you have to have an autoship order in Visalus, at least in the beginning.. According to Visalus, “In order to earn income with ViSalus you must remain Active. You do this by maintaining $125 Personal Qualification Volume (PQV) in Auto-Ship Sales or $200 PQV in Retail Sales per month. This can be a combination of personal product purchases and/or personal Customers.”
Obviously, in the beginning, before someone has any customers, let alone $200 in retail sales, they’re going to need to be on autoship of some sort in order to be considered active. Otherwise, they’re not going to accumulate the volume and get paid! They either have a 125 autoship order or they make up the difference on the $200 in retail sales less the amount of sales they’ve made…
Second, yes it is true that in Visalus you can count preferred customers towards your autoship requirement. (This is about the only statement that you make that is actually 100% accurate in your entire post!) Guess what? You could do the same in VEMMA. You could take an order from a customer, put it in your name, have the product sent to them, and the points on their order would go into your personal PV, thereby counting towards the 125 points needed to be bonus qualified.
Finally, in order to participate in the “3 for free” program, according to Visalus “You must have a Challenge Kit on Auto?Ship to qualify for this program. Free Kits can be earned by having at least 3 personal Customers on Challenge Kits with volume totaling at least 3 times that of your personal Challenge Kit.” So, you have to have an autoship order to qualify, and obviously if you don’t meet the requirements to get yours for free, you are dinged for the autoship! So, the picture you paint here that VEMMA requires an autoship and somehow Visalus doesn’t isn’t necessarily accurate-in fact, this in indicative of many of the issues you raise as we’re about to see.
Now we get to the good stuff Kyle and you’ve got some doozies here! Let’s start with “Vemma is a old school 1/3 ? 2/3 binary pay plan.” What??? No, the binary you worked at Mona Vie Kyle was an old school binary plan-the same type we promoted 20 years ago! A multiple position 50/50 binary! Now that’s “old school,” and made even worse because in Mona Vie, as in Visalus, income is determined by rank, which creates a lot of breakage in the plan! On the other hand, a 1/3-2/3 binary plan with matching bonuses and other features such as momentum bonuses, rank advancement bonuses, global bonus pools, and a car program would not be considered “old school” by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe you were having a Mona Vie flashback at the time you wrote your comments? In reality, Visalus is the one with an “old school” plan! It’s a typical uni-level style plan that’s been around for more than 40 years! 1/3-2/3 binary plans didn’t come into their own until the last 15 years…
Love this one: “The problem with this and all binaries is that you will be unbalanced and that means banked volume that you will never get paid on.” First, your statement is contradictory and makes no sense! Banked volume means volume that is saved so that you can get paid on it, either in a current or future pay cycle! If you have 1 big leg, the longer you are in a program the more likely you are to have a second leg grow to the point that you are then earning an income on the volume that was banked! Second, regardless of what pay plan one is working, you almost always have one leg that grows bigger and faster than the other-that’s the advantage of a 1/3-2/3 plan over a 50/50 binary plan! You’re going to get paid faster and more often as your 2 teams don’t have to be equally balanced! Evidently you inadvertently agree because you make the point that the longer you’re in a program the more likely to have a “runaway” leg! Third, having one big leg becomes more problematic in a unilevel plan like Visalus! Why? Because typically you have to have several other qualified legs in order to pick up the income on the depth of both that 1 big leg as well as the others! It’s a lot easier to build 1 additional leg in a binary than an additional 3-4 legs or more in a unilevel or stairstep plan! Fourth, you have to have balanced legs in Visalus in order to rank advance, and rank advancement determines your income in Visalus! Can you say contradictory? Finally, you never get paid on “banked volume?” Are you kidding me? That’s the point of allowing volume to accumulate from week to week, and even have it roll over into a following month, so that at some point you have the opportunity to get paid on it!
You’ve got it backwards! You never get paid in a unilevel or stairstep plan on a significant amount of volume because 1) if you don’t have the width (a certain number of qualified legs) you don’t collect on the depth. or in the case of Visalus, if you haven’t achieved various ranks and don’t have a 60/40 split you don’t get paid on depth (the income rolls up the line into the pockets of a top leader or the company keeps the money); 2) unilevel and stairstep plans like Visalus flush the volume you haven’t been paid on at the end of every month-you lose the potential opportunity to earn income on that volume forever! Oh, and 3) to add insult to injury, you start at ZERO the first of every month in unilevel plans like Visalus! So, the point you’re making is actually a huge problem in your plan, not the VEMMA plan! (This seems to be common with your comments-in an attempt to pick apart the VEMMA plan, the negatives you raise about VEMMA are actually more true of the Visalus plan!)
Finally, you have to have some balance in the Visalus plan! You need 3 active legs (4-5 in many cases in order to reach the top of the plan), and the volume from any one leg is limited to 60%! According to Visalus: “No more than 60% of the total required Rank Qualification Volume (QV) can come out of any single leg. For example, a Regional Director can only count 60% of $12,500, or $7,500, in any one leg to qualify for that rank.” Guess where the other $5,000 is coming from? Other legs! If all you had was $12,500 in total volume, and it was all in one leg, guess what? Screwed! Why? Because rank determines how much income you’re going to earn! (According to the Visalus website, “The higher the rank you achieve, the more levels from which you can earn commissions.” Can someone say “breakage?”)
Or if you had $12,500 in volume, and $9,000 of it was in one leg and $3500 in another leg, guess what? Screwed again! Basically zip in income! At least in VEMMA you’d cycle around 20 times! You can’t count more than 60% of the volume from any one leg towards qualifications for rank in Visalus, and rank in Visalus determines how many levels you get paid in the unilevel! How is this really any different from a 1/3-2/3 binary where one leg has to do 2/3 (66%) of the points required in order to earn a cycle and get paid? Answer: conceptually, It’s not!
In fact, in Visalus you need 3 legs that have some balance as you need at least 125 in 3 legs and 1 leg cannot count for more than 60% of the volume required…in essence, you could have 1 leg count for up to 60% and a second leg count for the other 40%, correct? Well, that’s basically like a 1/3-2/3 binary plan at that point in terms of the way you are having to build your organization! The big difference is with 2 legs you’d be limited as to how many levels you would get paid on in a unilevel or plan like Visalus (you’d have to be generating $150,000 a month in volume in Visalus in order to get paid on all 8 levels plus pick up depth bonuses which will take the average person quite a while, if ever) whereas a binary has unlimited depth and the only requirement to capture the volume is to be active and have one active in your left team and one active in your right team. In addition, your income would be smaller in the unilevel plan as you are getting paid on a limited number of levels compared to getting paid on total sales volume in a binary. Once again, your comment is disingenuous at best and is actually more problematic in a pay plan like yours (an “old school” unilevel plan) than in a binary plan like VEMMA!
Next up: “Furthermore you are primarily paid on 1/3 of what you do (your lesser leg) that?s why they call it the profit leg.” I say great to that! Talk about making it easier for the little guy! If you happen to have had one leg built for you, you only have to build 1 leg and you end up earning a far greater percentage on the volume in your second leg compared to what you would earn in a unilevel plan. For example, let’s take the VEMMA plan. Upon review, it shows one needs 360 QV in one team and 180 QV in your second team in order to cycle and earn $22-$25. If I have one leg built for me by up enroller and upline, then I’m earning $22-$25 on 180 QV. Let’s go with the $22 as a yardstick. Earning $22 on 180 is 12%, which beats the 5% you earn in the unilevel-it even beats the 5% in the unilevel and the other 2-4% you might earn in the depth bonus! I’m beginning to wonder if you really understand compensation plans and how they really work, be it unilevel or binary!
Second, it’s far easier to build 1 leg than it is to have to build multiple legs! Third, even if you’re having to build 2 legs in the binary, that’s not any different than having to build 2 legs in Visalus where you’re going to have to build based on a 60/40 requirement. The big difference is that in VEMMA you’re able to earn an income on all the volume generated in both legs regardless of rank whereas in Visalus, even if I build 2 legs and meet the 60/40 requirement, my ability to get paid on the volume in various levels is determined by my rank! In order to get paid on all 8 levels plus earn depth bonuses I have to reach Ambassador (generate $150,000 a month in volume).
Here’s another disingenuous and highly misleading comment of yours: “Vemma is also a FLUSHING binary with some year end flushing calculation of 15x your profit leg or 150,000 rp.” Well, at least VEMMA only flushes once a year and they still leave you a substantial amount of volume after the flush to start the new year with, volume you have the opportunity to earn an income on! On the other hand, Visalus has a flushing unilevel plan! Visalus flushes ONCE EVERY MONTH, leaves you NO volume, you LOSE the opportunity to earn income on any sales you were not paid on at the end of EVERY MONTH, and you start every new month at ZERO! Gotcha again! Once again, you make a comment that in your mind is an indictment of VEMMA’s plan, when in reality, it’s not really an issue at all in VEMMA, and is actually more of an indictment of the Visalus plan! I just love how this is working out!
Now, your next point has some real “wording sleight of hand” to it. “No balance required for commissions and the only balance required (60/40) is for rank advancement.” Well, that’s true, but misleading at the same time. In Visalus you can’t have one (commissions) without having achieved the other! (rank). In Visalus rank advancement determines how many levels you get paid on! And, there is a 60/40 requirement as well as volume requirement for rank advancement! So you do have to build balanced legs in Visalus! That’s the catch! Income is determined by rank, and rank is determined by having balanced legs due to their 60% limitation! If you don’t have at least 2 legs with a certain amount of total volume balanced with a 60/40 split, you don’t advance in rank (Not really any different than having to have 2 legs of some balance in a binary plan), and you’re stuck getting paid on what, a whopping 2 levels in the Visalus unilevel if you don’t meet all the requirements? You can’t build just 1 big leg in Visalus and earn a big check, let alone advance in rank in order to get paid on more levels whereas you could have enrolled a few good people into a runaway leg in a binary plan like VEMMA and still earn six figures a year on matching bonuses.
Second, you’ll make far more on 2 legs in a binary than you’ll ever make if all you have is 2 legs in a unilevel plan, Visalus included! (We’ve already established that with the comparison between what you and Tom are earning as a percentage of total volume and actual dollar earnings).
Here is where we catch you in a trap where you contradict yourself-“This is a major plus for Visalus considering most people who stay in any company will end up with a run away leg.” Most people will end up with a run away leg? Really? Wait a minute. Just a minute ago you were complaining about this in regards to a binary, yet it’s now a positive in a unilevel plan? LOL…once again, you’ve got it backwards! It’s a hindrance in a unilevel plan and a positive in a binary plan, especially a 1/3-2/3 binary plan! You just made my point regarding the virtue of a 1/3-2/3 binary plan! If I have a run away leg in a binary, I can now focus all of my energy into building just one leg (my second leg) and be earning matching bonuses while I am building that second leg, but in a unilevel plan, I’ve got all these people on my front line and am having to build multiple, qualified legs at the same time, and if I don’t meet the 60/40 requirement I’m not earning a dime to speak in Visalus! (I’d probably get paid 5% on a whopping 2 levels-wow!) Assuming you have a run away leg, it’s easier to build 1 more leg in a binary plan than it is to have to build several more qualified legs in a unilevel plan! Thanks for making my point!
Regarding the 24 months of inactivity issue and being terminated after no activity for 24 months that you raised, I can’t think of a single company that doesn’t remove someone from their distributor rolls if they’ve been inactive for a certain period of time! For most companies, it is a 12 month period as companies have a yearly renewal. In the case of Visalus, you charge a fee to sign up and a yearly renewal feeI! (FYI: VEMMA doesn’t charge a fee!) Here is what Visalus says in its own words: “In order to maintain your ViSalus Distributorship, you must pay a $25 Annual Administration Free within 60 days of your enrollment anniversary. Otherwise you are at risk of losing your Distributorship and organization.” Wow, lose your disributorship and organization in Visalus if you don’t cough up the administration fee? Sounds like a termination to me! (Maybe now that you guys are recruiting so many new people, they could take that $25 fee, pool the money, and be able to pay you those big rank advancement bonuses at one time like VEMMA does instead of spreading out the payments over 24 months?)
Obviously, if someone does not pay the fee (and if they haven’t been active in 12 months, why would they pay to renew?), they in effect can and would likely lose their position in the tree and their organization! In effect, the company “terminates” their position.” Otherwise there would be no reason for Visalus to warn people they would be “at risk” of losing their distributorship and their organization! This is why your comment Kyle is disingenuous at best! You make it sound like only VEMMA “terminates” someone for inactivity when the truth is every company removes inactive distributors at some point, including Visalus! At least VEMMA doesn’t charge an upfront fee or renewal fee like VIsalus for the privilege!
Here’s another example of where you make another disingenuous statement, and it’s regarding matching bonuses. First, matching bonuses were implemented in binary plans in order to eliminate an inherent flaw in the original binary plans, which was that you could enroll a few good people, but have them end up in one team, and even though that one leg was producing volume, you were not earning an income if you didn’t have a second team generating some volume. The matching bonus made it possible to earn a significant income if this situation developed. I could sponsor someone like a Tom Alkazin who ends up making $50,000 a week (he does) and because of the match I could earn $5,000 a week on Tom, plus matching bonuses on all those that Tom enrolled! And the only requirement is that I am active and that I have enrolled 4-6 people who are active. This was done to help both the little guy as well as the experienced network marketer.
In a plan like Visalus, having just one productlive leg, I would earn peanuts as I would get paid on a whopping 2 levels of people and their personal volume! Remember, according to you, most people will end up with a runaway leg! In order for me to earn on the maximum number of levels plus qualify for the depth bonus in Visalus, I have to 1) have 3 active legs; 2) have to do $150,000 in monthly volume; and 3) have to deal with the 60/40 balancing act…
So, in VEMMA if I had a Tom Alkazin that I enrolled below me, even if I didn’t have a second leg, I could be earning 10% matching bonuses on Tom ($5,000 a week/$20,000 a month), plus 10% on all those that Tom enrolled. In Visalus, if all I had was one leg and I had enrolled someone like Tom Alkazin, I would earn basically ZERO! For the average person the matching bonus concept is far better than the depth volume bonus! Only a small percentage of people will ever hit the requirements to earn the depth bonus in Visalus, but anyone can earn matching bonuses in a binary plan like VEMMA! (It’s a lot easier for the average person to enroll 4-6 active people in VEMMA to earn matching bonuses than it is for them to generate $150,000 a month in volume and meet the 60/40 requirement in order to earn the depth bonus in Visalus!)
The next point you raise has me wondering if you really understand how binary plans work, let alone VEMMA’s pay plan! You said, “I love global bonus pools because it causes crossline to work together. I was shocked to find Vemma has tied this earning to cycles as well. The problem with this is that it keeps you focused on cycles instead of pushing total volume and pushing people through the ranks.” Huh? What do you think cycles are based on? Volume! Hello! In VEMMA you’re focused on generating volume, and volume is what leads to cycles. Cycles in turn lead to rank advancement! See how that works!
In addition, your ability to hit the top levels of achievement in VEMMA and earn the highest rank advancement bonuses is based on having a certain number of people in personally enrolled lines of sponsorship who have achieved various ranks, so one of the objectives is to help people rank advance, in part so you can reach the top and to earn the top rank advancement bonuses! Your analysis is completely wrong as is your insinuation that somehow VEMMA doesn’t promote helping others to reach higher ranks! It’s exactly the opposite of what you think or are saying!
Of course the big difference is income in VEMMA is based on volume in 2 legs, which leads to cycles, which in turns leads to rank, whereas income in Visalus is based on rank, which is determined by having 3 balanced legs, having to achieve a certain amount of total volume ($150,000 in monthly volume to reach the Ambassador level in order to max out the unilevel plan), and having to meet a 60/40 balanced leg requirement in order to achieve rank!
Once again, in your attempt to make VEMMA look bad, it turns out Visalus is even worse! First, Visalus pays only 2% into their equivalent “leadership” pool whereas VEMMA pays 3%. Second, your pool is only for those who reach the rank of Presidential or above (only benefits the big guys) whereas in VEMMA people hitting the mid levels of achievement such as Platinum (the little guy) can earn from the global bonus pool! Third, VEMMA has a 3 month period in which to meet the requirements to participate, allowing the little guy plenty of time to qualify.
Here’s another point Kyle where you don’t come clean, appear to be condescending in your remark regardign VEMMA, and make something sound so much better than it really is in the case of Visalus. It’s your statement: “I?m glad to see Vemma with some onetime bonuses. Vemma?s $414,100 onetime bonuses are good compared to most in the industry. However compared to Visalus?s 1 million it doesn?t look so good.” Guess you didn’t bother to read the fine print on your $1 million rank advancement bonuses! First, it says for a limited time! VEMMA’s is all the time! Second, there is a 36 month time restriction in order to qualify for it-VEMMA has no time frame! Third, and most importantly, Visalus pays it out over 24 months! LMAO…So you go out and work hard to hit a certain level and now they make you wait 24 months to get paid in full on these bonuses? Well that’s disappointing! At least VEMMA pays it in one lump upon qualifying for it! As with the Visalus car program, which isn’t really a free BMW, the $1 million bonus program is not all it’s cracked up to be either! (Love how you guys forget to mention the “gotchas” that are part of the bonus program!)
By the way, with the current value of money, by the time you finally get the total of $1 million, it’s lost probably 20% of its value…I could take the $400,000 VEMMA pays in a one lump sum and probably within 24 months have it worth as much as getting the $1 million fed to me one month at a time over 2 years…maybe Visalus could borrow some more money from Blythe in order to pay these bonuses at one time? Or take those $25 enrollment fees Visalus charges (VEMMA is free), plus the $25 yearly renewal fees VIsalus charges, pool that money, and pay you guys the big rank advancement bonuses at one time instead over 2 years!
Finally, we come to your last remark, which leads me to further believe you don’t really understand compensation plans, or was intentionally made knowing full well it’s not the truth, and therefore extremely irresponsible for someone who claims to be a leader! Actually, I’m inclinded to believe at this point it’s both! Your comment was “With just a quick glance it looks like a 20% skimming off the top for the company before payout. 999.99 = 800 reward points.” Well, that’s the problem with “quick glances!” Perhaps you should do some research next time before making irresponsible as well as inaccurate statements, and without making the statement in proper context !
First, “skimming” insinuates some nefarious act, that VEMMA is cheating its distributors, or doing something highly improper or illegal, which is not the case. Second, as with many companies, when a fast start bonus is paid, the amount of CV is reduced. In VEMMA’s case, the CV is reduced on the first order only in lieu of a fast start bonus being paid. On all subsequent orders, full points are awarded. By the way, your own company Visalus does this, so your comment is like the pot calling the kettle black! LOL. According to Visalus, “When the 15% Personal Customer Commission level is achieved, Bonus Volume (BV) is imported at 80% for upline team commissions. When the 20% Personal Customer Commission level is achieved, BV is imported at 60% for upline team commissions. When the 25% Personal Customer Commission level is achieved, BV is imported at 40% for upline team commissions.” They’re doing exactly the same thing VEMMA does!
In addition, have you bothered to read your own company’s compensation plan overview? Evidently not! Once again, according to Visalus, “In most cases, ViSalus products offer ?dollar for dollar BV.? LOL…there’s 3 important words there-in most cases! They leave the door open to adjustments in certain cases just like VEMMA! The hypocrisy of your statement is breathtaking as is your insinuation of “skimming!” As Tom Alkazin noted on VEMMA Mangosteen, probably VEMMA’s #1 selling product, the cost is $63 and the CV is 60, which is 95% value…another example of how you take things either out of context and/or totally misrepresent the real picture. Tom also intelligently noted why there are some circumstances where 100% cannot be done.
Well, those are the responses to your comments. As a former national champion in high school and college in debate, if this were a debate, you would have just been handed your butt on a silver platter! Of course, this whole issue arose when Visalus fired the first salvo in attempting to make itself look good, namely Blake’s video, which is filled with mis-truths, half truths, and no truths when it comes to binary plans. I noticed BK never had a video knocking “old school” unilevel plans, let alone a video knocking Visalus. His video was merely a response to some of Blake’s ignorant comments.
Here’s the truth: Visalus doesn’t have anything original! Mary Kay beat you guys to the “car program” concept by several decades…Weight loss, shakes, and tablets/capsules/pills-Cambridge and Slender Now (late 70’s) and Herbalife (1980) beat you guys to the punch by 30 years! Cookies-nothing new there…Phoenix and Pure Life Systems did that over 20 years ago! Special promotions like challenges, 90 day this and 90 that, done before Visalus as Tom Alkazin mentioned. Unilevel plan-Visalus certainly didn’t introduce it-they missed that by at least 5 decades! Even the holding tank concept is not new!
In fact, the holding tank concept is nothing more than a sleight of hand attempt to give a unilevel plan a binary powerleg type effect! (Gotta love the Visalus anti-binary hypocrisy-Blake blasts the binary concept and then turns around and basically implements a binary powerleg type feature to his own plan! LOL!) Kathy, pay attention! Noticed your rant on getting a leg given to you in VEMMA-pay attention, the same “benefit” happens in Visalus! According to Visalus, “All new personally Enrolled and Sponsored Associates will remain in a Vi-Net ?Waiting Room? on your Level 1 and can be repositioned one time within your organization within 60 days of their enrollment date. While new Associates are in the Waiting Room, all commissions and bonuses are still paid on the normal Weekly and Monthly Pay Cycles. This allows for very fast & strategic team building.” Yes Blake, just like a binary and the powerleg concept! In Visalus you can hold someone and a leg you’ve been building for up to 60 days, use that as leverage to recruit a key person, and then place that leg down below the key person you’ve just recruited as an incentive. It’s no different than having someone placed in a pre-existing position in a binary or offering someone a spot near the top of a leg in a binary and offering to put people below them.
Well, at least Blake got one thing right-it’s a strategy for building teams fast! I can sign up someone and build a big leg in Visalus and hold them for up to 60 days, giving me time to go recruit a leader and tell him I can position a big leg below him! How is this any different than having an extra position in a binary plan that has one leg of activity below it and offering that position and it’s powerleg to someone? It’s not! They’re both one in the same-a strategy for recruiting and team building!
So, what exactly has Visalus pioneered that is so innovative and earth shattering? Nothing! What Visalus has done well, as is the case with Mona Vie, is marketing-period, end of story! Visalus sales had tanked and company sales were down to something like $600,000 a month at one point not too long ago, and it needed a shot in the arm, and it came in the form of “bridge” money from Blythe in exchange for giving up a huge stake of their company, and slick marketing promoting a free BMW, which is not really a free BMW, but it was promoted as such. (Just a little misleading-why don’t they either give them the car outright, or, at the very least, pre-pay the lease for 2 years like others have? This way those with bad credit would still be able to get a new BMW!)…What made the promotion work was that there wasn’t much of a qualifier-if you were breathing and could fog up a mirror, you practically qualfied! As more and more people got their BMW’s, the word spread, and the next thing you know Visalus is generating some growth and momentun, and couple that with bigger incomes being earned, and it led to another wave of growth and momentum, and then they went on a roll. (It would be interesting to see the percentage of people who have picked up a BMW that are not qualified every month or that have either had to return or had the BMW repossessed! There are certainly a lot of rumors floating around that something like 70 of the 77 BMW’s in Alaska are no longer being driven. If that’s true, that’s not a positive.)
How long will it last? Who knows…some people like to throw that question around in regards to Visalus. I won’t….rapid growth eventually slows…there’s only so long that a company can continue to grow at a meteoric clip before it has to begin to slow down…that’s just the nature of business, so it’s not a negative in the case of Visalus…and just because their growth slows down does not mean they’re going out of business or that they have a bad program…which some imply….it just means that if you get involved at that point you missed the first few waves, that’s all…with good management, they should be able to build on the momentum they’ve created…Richard is right as current growth and success is no guarantee of long term success…back in the 80’s we were on quite a roll at Herbalife over the first 5 years, breaking every business record known to the business world, and then the FDA issue hit, and within several months sales went from $90 million a month down to $3 million a month. It took 7 years to get it back to the billion mark…
The key to Visalus’s recent success has been one thing-marketing! Does their product work any better than say Herbalife? No..and that’s not a bad thing…Does their pay plan work any better or pay out signficantly more than other companies with a unilevel plan? No…once again, that’s not a bad thing…Are they currently outmarketing and promoting a number of other companies? Yes, and that’s a good thing for them…As is the case with Mona Vie, Visalus has done a great job at marketing…their BMW car program is a classic example…Take the new Visalus $10 million promotion…great idea…they’ve packed it with some good stuff in terms of awards, rewards, etc. They’re doing a great job of marketing…as I mentioned at the outset, gonna tell it like it is…be critical when called for, but also complementary as well. Have to be firm, but fair…Are these anything new? No. They’re just doing a better job at marketing than most. Tom Alkazin hit the nail on the head when he said, “Steve Jobs didn?t invent the computer, mp3 player, smart phone or the online music store, he just executed the ideas better.” Visalus didn’t invent diet shakes, cookies, 90 day challenges, car programs, million dollar giveaways, etc., but they’ve done a great job at marketing and promoting…they’ve simply outexecuted many other companies in the industry.
I would put VEMMA in the same category of companies that are excelling at marketing and branding…they too have done a tremendous job in building their brand, perhaps even more so than Visalus. The last time I checked Visalus hadn’t won any “Best Overall” awards from the likes of The Men’s Journal magazine like VEMMA has, hasn’t won the Product of the Year award from Ms. Fitness magazine in their yearly product of the year competition like VEMMA has, wasn’t named #1 in any product category by Business For Home and its judging panel of doctors like VEMMA has, doesn’t have any major U.S. pro sports teams using and promoting their product like VEMMA has, doesn’t have America’s most well known and trusted doctor recommending their product in his Esquire magazine column like VEMMA has, doesn’t have one of the highest ORAC scores ever recorded like VEMMA has, doesn’t have their own state of the art manufacturing facility like VEMMA has, well I could keep going, but we don’t want to beat a dead horse now, do we.
By the way, notice that Visalus is paying commissions/bonuses on Success magazine subscriptions, which are considered a tool or sales aid. That’s a scary thought! They’re treading on thin ice from a regulatory point of view in that regard as most regulators aren’t keen on the idea of companies paying commissions on sales aids. Amway almost got kicked out of the UK over the whole getting paid to promote tools and sales aids issue…I’m surprised they’re doing it on one hand, but not so on the other-they have some young guys like Blake that started the company and perhaps they don’t know any better. Guess that might no longer be a problem-they aren’t majority owners anymore as they apparently had to sell a large stake in their company in order to keep it afloat..according to SEC filings, ViSalus is currently majority owned collectively by Blyth and Ropart Asset Management Fund, LLC and Ropart Asset Management Fund II, LLC .(all in the hands of the Goergen family)…they own 57.5% of the company and based on the paperwork filed with the SEC, that will likely jump to 70% in the next year or two….that being said, owning a small piece of something successful (each of the 3 Visalus founders currently own 9.6% of the company for a total of around 28.8% which can be reduced down should Blythe and Ropart decide to buy more of the company, which they will if Visalus continues to grow) but a small percentage of something big is better than owning 100% of a bankrupt venture, so give the VIsalus founders some credit in that regard. They’ll end up with millions of dollars..wonder if those at the bottom of Visalus will benefit since they’re the ones producing the sales volume? How much Visalus stock do you own Kathy?
One final note: Since Kyle mentioned judging a tree by its fruit, here’s our “tree” and the “fruit” it has produced: my partner in various projects over the past 20 years and I have a combined 65 years of MLM experience and over the last 3 decades we’ve built some of the fastest growing, largest, and most successful groups in the industry. In 2 companies prior to our current program, we built combined teams of around 1 million distributors, our groups generated $2 billion in sales, numerous people on our teams earned up to $1 million a year and more, and we earned $12 million.
In addition, we helped to pioneer the binary pay plan concept in the MLM industry (were involved with the first company to marry a binary plan with a health product back in the early 90’s-very few people know more than we do about the ins and outs of the binary plan-just in case you want to claim we’re biased, we grew up so to speak with unilevel and stairstep plans and did quite well with them in such companies as Herbalife back in the early 80’s, so its not like we have some built in anti-unilevel or stairstep breakaway agenda or bias) and we were among the first 2 groups of people to introduce automated online recruiting systems with a powerline concept to the MLM industry. (Corey Citron and the guys at LifeForce were the first and we were right behind them as the second ones.)
By the way, I also designed an online system for a top distributor in one of the bigger companies in the industry about 7 years ago and promoted it with a refer 3 and yours is free concept, which is about 2-3 years before Visalus ever launched, so this whole notion that somehow Visalus pioneered some original, new idea (3 for free) is simply ludicrous!
Gotta love how Visalus people like to make it look like they rolled out something original. So, should I be running around now claiming Visalus copied me? After all, Visalus die hards love to tout how when anyone introduces something like or similar to something that Visalus has introduced, that they’re the originals and the others are copycats…The fact is a “refer x number and you get something for free” is nothing new in MLM…it’s been done long before Visalus came onto the scene…
I think it’s fair to say that most knowledgeable people in the industry would consider my partner and I experts (one or both of us have been featured in industry publications and, like you Kyle, listed on the Business For Home list of top 100 earners in the industry…ranked above you on the list by the way.. (I don’t mention the background info as a means of bragging-there are a number of people who have built bigger groups, generated bigger volumes, and earned more money, but I do mention it to establish credibility and to document the fruit we’ve produced so to speak. Wouldn’t want anyone thinking we’re newbies or inexperienced and don’t know what we’re talking about.)
Let me attempt to educate some of the misinformed people on pay plans, notably the binary plan, and perhaps we can reduce the amount of erroneous and inaccurate statements made regarding binary plans.
Binary plans typically have what is known as a fixed percentage or pre-determined payout, typically 50%, (they take 50% of the product revenue, allocate certain amounts to different aspects of their plan such as fast start, binary, matching bonus, etc., and pay it out on a weekly basis) whereas unilevel and stairstep plans are theoretical payouts and generally pay out from the low 30% range (Amway 32% according to their own company website) to the mid to high 30 to low 40% range…(Herbalife and NuSkin for example-do the research! They’re both publicly held companies-you can see their numbers and figure out their percentage payout)…a very few will hit the mid 40% range…unilevel and stairstep plans typically have a tremendous amount of “breakage” due to their myriad of qualification and maintenance requirements-(only around 2% of the distributors achieve full qualification to earn on all levels and earn the maximum income) so the theoretical number that distributors promote (50-60-70%) actually ends being considerably less (from the low 30’s to low to mid 40’s at best). So, as a general rule, binary plans will pay out more money to the field.
Speaking of percentages, Richard Bliss Brooke, who comments here and is one of the more knowledgeable and better owners in the industry, would probably tell you that a company with a physical product, one that has to be manufactured such as a health product, can’t pay out much more than 50% to maybe 53% and still maintain long term viability…Figure 20% for operating expenses (rent, employee salaries and benefits, insurance, marketing, etc.), another 20% for product cost (with economies of scale and discounts based on volume you can shave a few percent off, but few companies create big enough volumes to make this significant), which leaves you 60% left…if you’re paying out 50%, that leaves you a gross profit margin of 10% to work with…there’s your 100%…that’s why distributors running around claiming their company pays out 60% or higher have no clue what they’re talking about if they’re marketing a health product or one that is consumable! If true, they’re either skimping on the product (not much in it), or they have zero left over for profit margins-it’s one or the other, or worse, both!
Back to the theoretical vs. actual payout situation of a unilevel plan. Visalus is such an example of a theoretical payout…they have maximum exposure in the unilevel part of their pay plan of 5% on 8 levels, or 40%…however, typically perhaps only 2% of the distributors will qualify for all 8 levels…as a result, they don’t pay out the maximum or theoretical 40%…not even close! Their actual payout in that part of their pay plan is far less than 40%! Probably the mid to perhaps high 20’s…throw in 2-4% on the leadership depth bonus, 2% on global bonus pools (VEMMA pays 3%), a few percentage points for fast start bonuses, the car program, etc..and despite a claimed theoretical percentage, they’re probably at no more than 45% at best in terms of actual payout to the field-VEMMA is a true 50% payout as it is a pre-determined or fixed percentage payout.
Kathy, are you listening? VEMMA pays out a full 50%…your comment “I know that BK takes away from the bottom to sponsor all the likes of the sports teams such as the Suns and every time there is a change or an enhancement as he likes to call it, its at the bottom peoples expense” is laughable! It’s not coming out of the 50% that is paid to the field! It’s coming out of his 50%. In fact, it’s coming out of the typical 20% operating expenses category, which is his own pocket! You’ve got a lot to learn about pay plans and how companies operate!
How can it be at the bottom people’s expense if the cost of various smart marketing relationships to build his company brand doesn’t come out of the 50% payout to the field? I’m sure a lot of distributors in various companies would love to have several major U.S. pro sports using and promoting their product! It’s called smart marketing and branding and its major credibility and exposure! I’d be willing to bet if Visalus had the same relationships, you’d be promoting them with the same zeal you and others promote the 90 day challenge and the BMW car program!
Finally, I happen to know that BK doesn’t make a move without running it by his top leaders, so this notion that somehow he runs around and just makes changes on a whim or willy nilly is absurd! Those in the industry who know BK such as other owners and top leaders in other companies know that’s not how he thinks or operates! I know firsthand! Six years ago, prior to the launch of VEMMA, several of his leaders thought they wanted to go with a matrix plan-I spoke on a conference call with them and discussed why that would be a huge mistake, that historially with the exception of Melaleuca, matrix plans have never worked long term, and that a binary plan was a much better choice, especially due to timing. The trend in the industry at the time, and it’s still true today, was that the fastest growing companies had 3 common denominators: they were health and wellness companies, they had a limited number of products, and they had a binary plan with matching bonuses. Unlike many owners, BK listened, and ultimately made the right decision.
Furthermore, the truth about BK is actually the opposite of what you claim…Fast start bonuses help the little guy..the momentum bonus was designed for the little guy….rank advancement bonuses help the little guy…when people qualify for Gold, the 3rd position they achieve in terms of rank when first getting started, they’re given a free trip to the office to attend a special 3 day training program which helps the little guy, paying weekly helps the little guy, and the BMW car program is a nice incentive for the little guy…but hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of your opinion! I’ve never heard of any bonuses being taken away from the little guy in VEMMA-in fact, if anything, the VEMMA plan would be considered by those of us who are real compensational plan experts to be bottom heavy at the expense of the leaders at the top!
You raise 2 other issues that are simply false-first, your comment that “I watched far too long as the big people kept being handed legs and rewards while the little people kept getting the bonuses taken away. I do know of many leaders in Vemma that are handed top earning legs, thus throwing them into 6 figure incomes.” Here is another example of a specious comment and how your complaint about VEMMA is actually more problematic in Visalus!
First, even if someone were transferred or bought into a pre-existing position that had one team below it, where’s the reward? You’d have to build a second leg in order to create an income! No company is going to just hand someone a six figure income! Please! Get real! Furthermore, big checks in VEMMA are not earned at the expense of the little guy because there is no roll up or compression in the VEMMA plan! But, there is in Visalus! You have a lot to learn about compensation plans! Perhaps that’s one reason why you didn’t succeed before?
Second, assuming that someone was moved into a position that had one leg below it, how is that any different than having a leg placed below me in Visalus through the “holding tank” feature? It’s not! Evidently in your excitement to join Visalus you didn’t bother to do any analysis of their pay plan. In Visalus I could go build a big leg and I’ve got 60 days to re-position it anywhere I want in my organization. In those 60 days I could go out and recruit a leader with the following pitch: If you sign up with me, I’ll place this big leg below you. In effect, I can use this holding tank feature (which has been done before in the industry, so once again nothing new on the part of Visalus) as leverage in order to recruit a big leader, so it becomes both a recruiting and business building tool. In effect, the holding tank feature creates a binary powerleg type effect in the unilevel plan! Someone is being given the benefit of starting with one team below them! How is using the holding tank in order to reposition a leg below someone new I recruit or put below someone already in my organization any different than giving someone a powerleg position with one team already below it in a binary? Hello! It’s not! Period-end of story! And it’s done in Visalus, so the very complaint you throw at VEMMA happens in Visalus! Can someone say contradiction? Hypocrisy?
In fact, as far as the bonuses being taken away, first we’ve already disproven that notion, but to take it a step further-that will happen in Visalus moreso than VEMMA! Here’s how: When the little guy doesn’t get paid on volume in VEMMA, the unpaid volume is banked so that they can earn an income on it in future pay cycles, but in Visalus, when the little guy doesn’t have 3 balanced legs, meet the 60/40 requirement, and doesn’t achieve $150,000 a month in volume, they don’t get paid on all levels, let alone earn depth bonuses. This creates “breakage” in the plan, and the money they don’t get paid rolls up to the upline leaders or the company keeps the money! (This doesn’t happen in VEMMA’s plan!) Either that, or the volume they’re not qualified to earn income on because they don’t meet all the Visalus requirements is compressed so that the upline gets paid on it, and the little guy has that volume flushed so that they’re never able to get paid on it, and the company makes them start at ZERO the first of the following month! Yes, so much for looking out for the little guy in Visalus! LOL..
Second, as much you claim the top leaders were given their checks on a silver platter, on the surface that’s patently absurd! No company is going to hand out 6 figure incomes on a silver platter! You claim to know how the top leaders earned their checks, but the truth is you don’t have a clue! While I do not know Tom Alkazin on a personal level, his reputation precedes himself. Tom is known as a consumate professional and respected by many leaders in other companies. He’s built large, successful organizations in several other companies prior to VEMMA and he earned his income in each of those programs! He has been a driving force in VEMMA since its inception as well and has created his income the hard way-he’s earned it! Finally, as noted above, your complaint is rather specious-even if given one leg to start with, people still have to build a second leg in order to create an income, and people in Visalus can be given a leg to start with as well compliments of the “holding tank” concept, so you can’t have it both ways! Can’t complain about one company in this regard and then happily promote the other when the very situation you condemn occurs in the other. We call that hypocrisy!
I do however happen to know 2 top leaders and income earners on a personal levelHarry Maier built his organization by hopping in his car and driving all over Europe to do meetings and trainings. He wasn’t handed a six figure income-he earned it. Clay Jackson has spent a large amount of time and money building his organization, especially internationally. having lived outside of the U.S. now for several years in several foreign countries in order to build his business. I know for an absolute fact he earned his income as well! Of course, we already know how Dennis feels based on his remarks to your comments.
Your comments wreak of “sour grapes.” There is one thing I would support you on-I believe you feel you probably didn’t have a good sponsor or upline to work with, but that problem is not exclusive to VEMMA-it happens in every company. Perhaps you should have done a better job when it came to deciding who to sign up with and whose team to join. Besides, you could have resigned and then rejoined after awhile with a new enroller. As far as your question regarding your success, you asked “what changed?” You mentioned you were still the same person, so you are pinning your success in Visalus on the pay plan. In lieu of the fact that you have to build at least 2 legs in Visalus and have to meet a 60/40 raio in order to rank advance as rank determines income, which conceptually is basically the same as what you would have to do in VEMMA, I would submit that it wasn’t the pay plan that led to your initial success-I would submit it was your new found excitement and marketing weight loss, which is an easier sale than supplements, one reason I suggested to BK several years ago that he launch a weight loss product, which he is about to do.
And I hope I don’t hear that he’s trying to copy Visalus! First, Visalus is the typical shake and tablet/capsule routine. BK’s product has no shakes and tablets/capsules. It’s a unique concept. Second, to insinuate that would be to claim that Visalus just copied Herbalife and/or Isagenix. Everybo.dy is moving into weight loss these days, not because of Visalus, but because it’s a huge market and the #1 global health issue
Anyway, I digress…let me get back to the binary vs. unilevel discussion. First, a binary is conceptually nothing more than a 2 legged unilevel plan with unlimited depth in terms of capturing volume and where income is based on total volume or production in 2 legs instead of being based on having a certain number of qualified legs or achieving a certain rank in order to earn on various levels. In addition, binary plans pay on a weekly basis and unilevel plans have historically paid people the middle of the next month on the previous months production, although unilevel plans like Visalus have adopted a weekly pay feature to various aspects of their plan.
Of course there are some notable differences. Everybody counts below you in a binary whereas you are limited at to who counts below you in a unilevel plan, unless you’re one of the fortunate few who hits the very top and is able to earn infinity bonuses. Second, unpaid volume accumulates in a binary plan so that you have the opportunity to earn the income in future pay cycles whereas unpaid volume is flushed in a unilevel plan at the end of every month, the unpaid income rolls up the line to a top leader (doesn’t happen in a binary) or the company keeps the money, the unpaid volume may be compressed so that those up the line make more money as that volume rolls into their payline (doesn’t happen in a bianry), and you start at ZERO the first of every month (doesn’t happen in the binary because the volume accumulates from one month into a new month).
The binary plan is probably the best plan for the average person. First, it’s easier to recruit a few people and build 2 legs than it is to have to recruit 30-50 people or more in order to build the 3-5 qualified legs or more that many unilevel plans require. The general rule of thumb is once you determine how many qualified legs you will have to build in a unilevel plan, multiply that number by 10. Why 10? Because for every 10 people recruited, one will do something of any consequence. The other 9-half of those quit after the first month, two, or three, and the others signed up really to buy the products at a discount, not to be distributors in the normal sense of the word. So, if you need to build 3-5 teams, you’re typically going to have to recruit 30-50 people or more. 20-25-30 years ago that was much easier-you had a limited number of companies at the time, but today there’s between 3,000-5,000 opportunities floating around, and a new one launching every hour anymore it seems, so its not as easy for the average person to recruit large numbers of people as it used to be.
There’s just one problem-the average person is only going to recruit a few people. How do you stretch a few into 30-50? You don’t! Yet, they’re going to have to do that to build the 3-5 legs or more than many unilevel plans require! If they’re in plan that requires them to build 5-10 teams or more they’re going to have to recruit 50-100 people. They’re doomed to fail before the ink has even dried on their application form. However, anyone can enroll as few as 2 people and because there are no levels, if they end up a producer somewhere in each of their 2 teams, personally enrolled or not, they can earn a sizable weekly income. If you had this happen in a typical unilevel plan, you wouldn’t earn much. You don’t have the width to collect on the depth or you haven’t achieved a higher level of rank in order to collect on deeper levels, let alone infinity bonuses.
In addition, in a unilevel plan, you’re focused on building width as that is immediate income, plus you have the requirements of having to have x number of qualified legs in order to earn on x number of levels, and you have no incentive typically to put people below others as the farther down you place them the fewer the levels you will earn on them, and if they’re a leader or someone you think is going to be good, you want them on your front line in a unilevel plan.
I could go on but it would take a book! For those who care to respond, please don’t come back with the typical and erroneous “companies with a binary plan fail more often,” “binary plans favor the big hitter,” and other incorrect statements I hear being continually perpetuated in our industry by misinformed individuals. First, there have been far more companies with a unilevel, stairstep, and matrix plan fail than those with a binary plan for one simple reason: those types of plans have been around far longer than binary plans, 20 years longer or more in some cases. Unilevel and stairstep plans caught on in popularity in the 70’s and early 80’s…binary plans made it onto the scene in the early, early 90’s and caught on fire around the mid 90’s…If you want to talk failure, talk matrix plans! Since 1985 thousands of companies have launched with a matrix plan, and only one company, just one, Melaleuca, has had any long term, significant success with a matrix plan. Besides, companies don’t fail because of their pay plan-greed, stupidity, mismanagement, ego, and lack of marketing are usually the death knell.
In fact, if anything, because binary plans can help to generate massive growth and big incomes quickly, the binary concept was abused in the past, with people promoting 7 positions, 15 wheelers, etc. This would be like blaming an automobile for getting into an accident when the driver of said automobile was drunk. Don’t blame the car (the binary concept), blame the driver! (The owners, greedy distributors, etc.)
Actually, the promoting of multiple positions in binary plans in the past, which was just an excuse to push more volume through the plan faster in order to create big checks faster, was no different than the front end loads that took place in unilevel and stairstep plans where people could buy their way to the top! Those promoting multiple positions in a binary just stole a page from the front end load playbook of distributors in some companies with a unilevel or stairstep plan! Herbalife, NSA, and WIN ring a bell? Legitimate companies with a well designed binary plan don’t promote the purchase of multiple positions. In fact, if it is a well designed binary plan, you don’t need to work more than one position, at least initially.
Furthermore, some companies such as USANA and Market America, both on the DSN list of top 100 companies, have been in business with a binary plan for more than 15 years now, so this notion that binary plans don’t last is fallacious! In addition, many companies such as VEMMA, Mona Vie, Isagenix, (all listed on the DSN list of top 100 MLM companies) and others like Synergy have been in business 5-10 years. Finally, some companies with a binary plan have failed, not because the binary plan was a bad concept, but for quite the opposite reason: they generated such massive growth in a short period of time that the company couldn’t handle the growth-or better yet, they mishandled and mismanaged the company and its growth. Alliance USA and SkyBiz are 2 examples, despite each having done several hundred million in sales the first few years. Yes, you can put your business in a world of hurts by growing too fast, especially if management lacks the skills and if the company is undercapitalized, just as you can for not growing fast enough in the first few years!
Obviously the latter was the case with Visalus over its first few years, hence the reason for their deal with Blythe, (they needed money because sales had tanked, cash flow was dwindling, etc. and so they sold a huge stake in their company in exchange for an infusion of capital) which has now resulted in Blythe owning 57.5% of the company, with the option to increase their ownership stake to 70% or more, which they’re likely to do based on recent SEC filings. ( https://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/110623/BLYTH-INC_10-Q.A/R11.htm ) In fact, the 3 founders are down to less than 10% each of an ownership stake in their own company!
As far as the “binary plans favor the big hitter,” it would be more true of unilevel and stairstep plans. First, binary plans don’t have compression and roll up in the 2 team part of the pay plan-unilevel plans like Visalus do, so all that volume you don’t get paid on (lost commissions if you will) end up in the pockets of those at the top who are qualified to get the roll up. Second, you can grandfather a big hitter into a unilevel plan-in other words give them a higher rank when they start and pay them on more levels. There is no such opportunity in a binary plan like VEMMA’s as income is based on production of 2 teams, not based on rank. The cycle amount for an Ambassador is the same as it is for a new person with no rank! Third, the myriad of qualificationa and maintenance requirements in a typical unilevel plan are suited for the big hitter-they’re the ones who can recruit 50-100 people or more and build 3-5 legs or more whereas in a binary plan the average person can more easily recruit a few people and build 2 teams. In addition, the average person stands to benefit from a big hitter in a binary plan as they are likely to see some spillover if they are on an outside leg whereas in a unilevel plan, the big hitter has no reason to put people under you-he’s focused on building width in order to reach higher ranks and earn more money,.
Let me address some of the other specious statements I hear some make about the binary plan. Let’s start with the “I was 1 legged and didn’t make any money.” First, in most cases, they had nothing to do with the 1 leg being built-it was built for them by their upline. Second, even if they had some involvement in the one big leg, if they had enrolled any productive distributors, they would have earned matching bonuses, whereas in a unilevel plan with one big leg they wouldn’t earn a dime! Third, what they are basically admitting is that they couldn’t build 1 leg on their own. My question to them is this: if you couldn’t build 1 leg in a binary, explain how you were going to build 3-5 legs in a unilevel plan for example? If you can’t build 1, you’re not building 3-5! A leg is a leg! Finally, the fact of the matter is if all you had was one big leg in a unilevel plan, you wouldn’t earn a dime either! So, it’s not really an indictment of the binary plan, it’s really an indictment of themselves, and the comment they’re making about the binary would also be applicable to a unilevel or stairstep plan! I call this a “false” issue!
“I got stuck on an inside leg and didn’t get any spillover.” First, that’s an excuse! You should never count on what anyone claims they can do for you! You need to have the philosophy if it is going to be, it’s up to me! Second, what happens above doesn’t determine your income-what happens to you on down determines your income and you have total control over that. Third, even if true and you’re left to build 2 legs on your own, how is that any different than being front line to someone in a unilevel plan? It’s not! Your sponsor in a unilevel plan isn’t going to start popping people on your front line-he or she is putting people they enroll on their front line! You’re on your own as far as recruiting and building your front line width! The only difference is you’re going to have to build 3-5 legs in a typical unilevel plan versus 2 in a binary plan!
In fact, if anything, you’re more likely to get help from an upline leader in a binary plan as he/she is not concerned about what level you are on-they’re getting paid on total production, so if you’re producing you’ll get their attention, but in a unilevel plan, if you’re far down in the tree and not in a leader’s payline, unless they’re qualified to earn infinity bonuses, they’re not going to be too excited about working with you, and in many cases may not have the time as others are more valuable to spend their time with…
Then there’s the “balancing” criticism, which in reality, also occurs in a unilevel plan. There are several variations of the binary plan, with the 2 most popular over the years having been a 50/50 binary plan (legs have to be equally balanced) and the other being a 1/3-2/3 binary plan. The 1/3-2/3 is the preferred because you’re likely to have one leg grow bigger and faster than the other, so in a 1/3-2/3 plan you’ll get paid faster.
That being said, unilevel plans will typically have a balancing requirement, too!. Visalus is a good example. You can’t count more than 60% of a leg towards qualification. Now, Visalus will tell you “well that only applies to rank advancement.” True, but rank advancement determines income! You can’t have one without the other! So, in effect, you have to build your organization conceptually similar to a binary in that you want to have one leg doing the 60, and the other leg/legs doing the remaining 40…
Now I found this comment fascinating-“binary plans are against nature.” Evidently Eric you have no background in biology. In nature, things are based on 2. Male-female, x and y chromosones, cells divide by 2, etc. God had Noah put 2 of everything on the ark. In biology, Mitosis is the process in which one eukaryotic cell divides into two cells identical to the parent. The binary plan goal is similar in theory-create 2 cells (distributors) identical to the parent (the sponsor). The goal is to have someone replicate themselves through 2 other people. Teach 2 to teach 2 who teach 2…
Binary plans are based on the concept of two and are more “natural” than unilevel plans. You have it completely backwards in your analysis. In a binary plan each position is equal as there are no levels-everyone has the same value to you. Someone on the first level is of no more value to you than someone on your 100th level. However, in a unilevel plan, each position is not equal, especially to you! The farther down someone is, the less in income they are worth to you, even if you get to the point that you are able to earn infinity bonuses, which isn’t happening for the average person!
In addition, in a unilevel plan you’re focused on working with those in your payline (within a certain number of levels), not those out of your payline, especially if you’re just starting to build as you wouldn’t be eligible for infinity bonuses, whereas in a binary, since everyone is of equal value and since there are no levels, you’ll work with any productive person, especially since you’re focused on building depth instead of width in a binary plan, which is exactly the opposite of the unilevel type plan where you’re focused on building width as your ability to earn income is tied to having a certain number of qualfied legs in order to capture the depth, or in having a certain number of legs in order to achieve a certain rank as rank in some plans determines how many levels you get paid on, as is the case with Visalus.
One other thing for the Visalus folks on this thread, please stop with such hilarious comments as “We are seeing many companies adopt many of the marketing strategies that is driving Visalus? growth” and “It is encouraging to see other company?s following Visalus? lead.” Really? LOL…You must be new to the industry, and when people like ourselves who’ve been in the industry for 25-30-40 years read such statements, we sit back and go “Hype! Must be a newbie” and we have a good laugh. I’m reminded of the adage, “There’s not much new under the sun.” Let me give you some insight…Car program-Mary Kay really pioneered that one, so you’re about 40 years late on that idea! Unilevel plan? “Old school” and around for more than 40 years!.Diet shakes, cookies, etc? Pure Life and Phoenix did that 20 years ago…90 day challenges and promotions? Done before Visalus! Refer x number and get your product or service for free? Done before Visalus! Million dollar bonuses? Herbalife has been doing that for several decades! Holding tank feature? Not new! So RIck, what marketing strategies are you referring to?
No, as with many of the statements made by Kyle and Kathi, you’ve got it backwards! We are seeing Visalus adopt many of the marketing strategies that drove of the growth of various industry giants like Mary Kay and Herbalife. It is encouraging to see Visalus follow their lead! Now that would be accurate and truthful statement! It’s quite the opposite of Rachel’s opinion, which makes Ryan’s quote hilarious: ?They can copy us, but they can?t catch us.” Well, nobody is copying anything from Visalus that Visalus hasn’t copied from others like Mary Kay for example. Visalus isn’t creating any new trends, just doing a good job at marketing and promoting various concepts and ideas that have been done before.
Off the top of my head, in terms of a strategy that just about everyone copied, I can think of one in the last 10-20 years and it didn’t come from Visalus! It was the online recruiting system with a powerline concept that the Concorde Group created (Corey Citron and the Howsdens) when they were at LifeForce. Until they introduced that concept, it had never been done before. One can argue about online systems and their effectiveness long term, but there’s no question it was a game changer and distributors in a large number of companies quickly copied the concept.
I would also caution Ryan not to get too far ahead of himself! We thought that nobody was going to catch us at Herbalife back in the early 80’s when we were breaking every business record at the time, hitting $90 million a month at one point within the first 6 years, (about 4 times more a month than Visalus’s best month) and then a little scandal landed on our doorstep called the FDA, and sales plummeted from $90 million a month to $3 million a month within about 90 days…the bottom fell out so fast it made people’s heads spin…the same could happen with Visalus, especially since they’re paying commissions on subscriptions which they themselves call a tool, and regulators aren’t keen on seeing MLM companies pay commissions and bonuses on sales aids or tools as they have what is known as intrinsic value to distributors only. Amway almost was booted out of the UK over the sales aids issue…never know when you might be hit broadside and suddenly your growth and momentum is wiped out…it’s not like you guys are doing several billion a year or more, so let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves. Congratulate yourselves for getting out of the jam you were in not too long ago, turning it around, and generating some major growth and momentum, but don’t forget it can disappear as quickly as it arrived.
I have no problem with Visalus…they’re doing a good job at marketing and promotion, and they’re certainly experiencing growth and momentum. as is VEMMA, and big incomes are being earned in both companies. What I take issue with are the inaccurate and misleading statements made by Blake, a now minority owner in his own company Visalus, on a video where he disparages the binary plan and thereby indirectly takes aim at a few of his major competitors, made all the more idiotic on his part when you consider that over the past 20 years the majority of companies that have experienced the greatest growth and most success have been companies with a binary plan, that binary plans have created the biggest checks in the shortest period of time for the greatest number of people, and binary plans typically pay out a higher percentage to the field than unilevel plans, not to mention that a binary is conceptually nothing more than a 2 legged unilevel plan and that his plan has some striking similarities to a binary, i.e., the holding tank creating a powerleg type effect, a 60/40 ratio qualification, etc.
Perhaps he was getting nervous that VEMMA was about to roll out with a unique, new weight loss concept and wanted to slow them down. Maybe he was worried about Isagenix, Organo Gold, or Mona Vie, all companies with a binary plan, and which have generated far more volume than Visalus has and which has people earning far bigger checks…maybe he felt the need to be critical of the binary plan so that people wouldn’t join those companies and instead would join Visalus…
My advice to Blake and to Visalus distributors is stay focused, stay positive, promote the upside to their program without being critical of another form of compensation plan and indirectly trying to make competitors look bad, especially when the comments are inaccurate or misleading. I don’t have a problem with head to head comparisons as long as they are factual and honest, but I do have a problem when inaccurate, misleading, or outright false statements are made and/or when improper insinuations or references are hinted at that have no basis in fact, and when I see such stuff, feel I should try and correct the record, or at the very least, provide some balance….
Wow, I have been with Vemma since the launch. I watch five other companies pull leaders and groups from the resource of Vemma. I am amazed at the transition and how many people talked about being on their last leg and an opportunity took them to where they needed to be. If your a pro, go to the next big wave. For me and my team – we are staying on our beaches. See you when you get back.
Kathy and Dennis – That’s why I love you both.
Leadership is why many companies made big numbers. Product is why companies make big relationships.
Let the race begin. Here is an open invitation if you leave and want leadership, contact me.
V brand partner – Paul
I'm not in Vemma nor ViSalus, but I agree the binary compensation plans pays more money. I totally agree with Tom Alkazin comment about Kyle's 8 million a month volume paying around $550,000 a month. I have personal friends in other companies with a binary compensation plan that are doing 6 million a month and earning $400,000 a month in Organo Gold. No one in ViSalus is earning close to that.
zaire,
Vi pays out 49% straight up, so if your organization does 1 M in revenue than just under 500K is paid out to your team, I know this because we are just at 10M in revenue per year and growing with Vi…so you misunderstood what Kyle was saying…as for a leader will make more in a binary plan versus Visalus…I don’t think that is the point…really who cares about the leaders!
Seriously, do you want to worship those who are making more money off your back or have the income evenly spread where they may give up some of the extra profits due to a back loaded comp plan…we have a serious amount of people making pretty incredible income for this industry! This comp plan pays 33% up front, 33% in middle and 34% in back end, this doesn’t exist anywhere in the industry that I have seen, still waiting to see other companies (outside of copy cats follow).
So do you want to compare at the revenue model suggested in your post that a leader from Oragano would make a couple to few hundred thousand more per revenue model, or perhaps have more ‘middle managers, beginners and leaders’ split that comp plan compensation so more people’s families are affected…
I love the stories of another family making 1500 a month, for most of the masses it takes care of rent/mortgage, I love the 300-600$ car payment program at the level its at with Vi cause its doable and pays for most peoples car payment (whether they chose the bmw or not) and finally by this time most families have their product for free and are saving 30-50% monthly on their food bill…
To me there are only three basic necessities in life that families need outside of love: shelter, mobility and sustenance …no matter the market, no matter the ethnicity, socio economic standing, religion…this is my personal cause with Vi is to help 1000 people above the 150 people we helped last year, get those three necessities of life taken care of..as for all the other rock throwing and name calling, do as you may, but in reality all that matters are those we help create stories with!
Russ Field and Phil Taneda
1 Star Ambassadors
6047620755
I realize to most the important thing to some is $$$$$$$ – making it quick at the expense of others – but to those of us who have not lost sight of what is REALLY important.. I think the true questions of which is better… Vemma or ViSalus – should be in the nutritional and true long term health benefits of the product. While my money is on Vemma – that a comparison I’d like to read.
Vemma will succeed further than Visalus; Visalus targets a demographic which many have already worked with, and that is weight loss & fitness; Vemma even has a product for Weight loss, “bod-e” but what makes Vemma stand out, is that they have products for multiple demographics. Untapped, Trillion dollar demographics. Verve? Possibly the most revolutionary energy drink this generation has seen, society already consumes 250M Gallons of Energy drinks daily, most of being which, are BAD for you and will cause Heart palpitations and other body complications. Verve Energy drink is vitamin/mineral based, with the super fruit mangosteen, with natural caffeine from green tea. Teens and College students are jumping all over this, because Verve is #1: healthy, #2: holds a highly effective business opportunity with Verve ALONE. in July 2012, Vemma had $10 Million in sales volume & 11,000 new Brand Partners.
Vemma works with 4-5 Demographics. I’ve only seen One demographic with ViSalus. ViSalus looks like a good company. but I’m 16 Years old. my surrounding demographic has absolutely zero interest in Weight loss/health/fitness products and having to change their meals and lifestyle as a whole, Versus working with Orange Cans that give us energy, allow us to earn a lot of money, get a new BMW & even health whether we care about health or not. Verve is on an Upsurge.
& If anyone who reads this would like more information on Verve & Vemma as a whole feel free to contact me, I am apart of the Young People Revolution going on right now. Yes I am a Brand Partner of Vemma & I’ll open your eyes to the true “Big Picture” of society and the demographics which can easily be tapped into with Vemma. Even if Vemma had no business opportunity I’d still drink their Verve Energy drinks just because they’re beneficial for your body & taste good. Millions of lives can be changed with Verve, and it might also save someone you know who drinks Monster/Red bull / Rockstar etc a trip to the Doctor from respiratory distress, chest pains, heart palpitations, etc. Your future depends on your decisions Today.
Binaries beat Visalus This break down is an expert opinion and assessment of Binary plans vs the Visaaluss plan. Why Visaaluss you ask ? Over the past two decades we done side by side assessments involving, Lifestyles, Noni, Market America and many more and I felt it was necessary that we now place Visaaluss under the microscope. What flagged Visaaluss on our map was when their co-founder’s video bashed Binary plans and when you pick on the best distribution platform ever released than we must respond. MLM companies love to compete and we also love that but Visaaluss does it with much smoke and mirror approach that we feel is harmful to the industry. Lets start: Every mathematical expert will tell you that any good Binary plan that pays to infinity and on both legs will beat any break away , matrix or Uni-level plan. In fact you don’t have to be a mathematician to know that INFINITY payouts pay more than any plan that has a payout level cut offs. In Visaaluss the CV commission payout cuts off at 8 level and even if it was 80 levels it would make no difference because INFINITY is more then 80, 800, 8000 levels etc. When you look at the facts you will see any good infinity 1/3-2/3 Binary plan will beat the Visaaluss plan why? Outside the clutter of one time bonuses and shady car schemes the real money in ALL compensation plans is in ONE aria COMMISIIOABLE VOLUME (CV). Every other bonuses, matching bonuses, wholesale and retail profits and global pool revenue sharing bonuses are insignificant to your income when compare to the CV commissions. Another thing you need to know is that over the past decades companies have continuously reduced their CV commission payout and replaced it with large bonuses of all kinds that looks great on paper but in reality has severely hurt the chances of the average person to be able to reach their financial targets. So why don’t companies like CV commissions? Simple, CV commissions are very costly to the corporation because once the CV is built the income becomes permanent for the distributor and corporation don’t like that. What corporations want to see is distributors continue to work hard to achieve new ranks and qualifications to get yet another ONE time payment until the next qualification. What is even worst is that as hard as it is to qualify once for these milestones, these companies also want you to re-qualify every month or you will lose the bonuses. Now you know why the bonuses are becoming more colorful and comp plans are becoming more and more complex to understand. The reality is corporations know that 99% + of the work force will not understand how to read a distributor compensation plan and will make a decision based on hype and a great looking chart and not substance. Robert Kiyosaki says “if you don’t know how to read a financial statement you are in trouble” I wrote in my book “if you don’t know how to read a distributor compensation plan you are in trouble” and vast majority don’t. So today I will make you a much better networker by explaining in simple terms some vital info that you will easily understand and after reading this assessment you will be a much better and smarter networker. For the past several decades I have assessed over 200 compensation plans and written several comp plans for upstart MLM companies. Rule #1: The less ranks in a plan the better and more accessible will be the rewards. Understand RANKS only have TWO purposes in the distributor compensation plan. a) Restrict the flow of funds from the corporation to the distributor b) Control the flow of the funds in the pool Although it is fun to work hard and get a pin on the stage and brag about how you just got a few % more commissions or bonuses because now you are a Director/Ambassador/supreme NATO commander, star ship commander etc, the reality is that bonus was your money to begin with, you just weren’t getting it until you worked hard and met several extra requirements. What is worst is that you must maintain the rank or you will lose it and not get the extra income. Rule #2: Pay attention to CV commissions and not bonuses. Don’t get side tracked by what seems like generous bonuses and incentives in a colour full chart. Although I like all those extra perks they are exactly what they are called bonuses and incentives and NOT the main source of your income. Remember CV commissions is based on the sales volume that is generated every month so it is PERMANENT but bonuses as big as they make them look is ONE time at a time and must be qualified and re-qualified no matter how big is your team and how many years of hard work you have put in. A good example of this is the infamous Visaaluss BMW club. Lets first break the myth. VIsaaluss does NOT give away BMW s and never has. Visaaluss much like other MLM car programs give away ONE-car payment at a time when you qualify , in this case a BMW payment. So stop saying I got my BMW and start telling the truth that you got one car payment until you qualify again for another car payment. So in this case the BMW payment is a bonus that you must qualify and r-qualify for every month. Of course most will not qualify every month or even some months so they are stock paying a $600 lease on a car that they didn’t need to begin with. This is where an incentive is a huge liability as apposed to being an incentive and I have seen how it has ruined credits and even took people to bankruptcy in the past. To be fair to Visaaluss this is an industry problem and not just Visaaluss. Now for the purpose of this demonstration we needed to chose a binary company to compare with Visaaluss plan and we chose GWT Corp. Why you ask,? GWT Corp offers the first and only FREE FLOWING Binary compensation plan. FREE FLOWING means less restriction on the flow of funds and less restrictions means more income and more frequent flow of income. However the information here will apply to all good binaries that pay to infinity and on both legs. Visaaluss VS GWT Corp: Retail profits: Visaaluss: 0% – 25% GWT: 60% – 100% winner: GWT by up to 600% CV on Retail payout: Visaaluss:100% down to 40% declines with volumes over $500 GWT: 60% – 75% Winner: 0-$500 Visaaluss by 40% , $500 + GWT by 87% First order bonus: Visaaluss: 5% – 20% ($8 – $220) 4 generations, GWT $50 cash + up to $225 in product bonus +100% CV to INFINITY on all packages Winner: GWT by a long shot Commission pay cycle Visaaluss: Monthly GWT: Weekly Winner: GWT Bonus payout Visaaluss: Some Weekly GWT: Weekly Winner: GWT Retail payout Visaaluss: Weekly GWT: Monthly (due to 30 day money back guarantee) Winner: Visaaluss Fast start bonus Visaaluss: 2 generation Up to $180 capped GWT: Up to $4500 in product bonuses Winner: GWT Residual and bonus Visaaluss: Unlevel 2- 8 level plus infinity bonus pay out shared amongst all qualifiers in a break away system, maximum 18 levels reach GWT: Binary – no level or rank restrictions, payout to INIFINITY Winner: GWT by a long shot because infinity is more than 8,18 or even 1800 levels. Payout %: Visaaluss: 5% – 4% (8th level) Infinity bonus payout up to 4 % (up to 18 levels, shared) GWT: 8%, not shared, Binary set up, payout to INFINITY Winner: GWT by a long shot, not even close. Power of THREE compare 3 X 3 X 3 X 3 …….. Based on Visaaluss comp plan example 9840 distributors each sell $150 (three balanced kits) = $1,446,480 in sales = $72,324 income for the Ambassador rank and above ONLY. GWT same scenario $1,446,480 x 8% = $118,243 in income Available to all LCs from day one, Winner: GWT by 48% Other bonuses, Visaaluss Rising star enroller pool $20 – $200, GWT Ambassador Challenge Up to $18,400 in cash, product bonuses and incentives winner: GWT by a long shot Matching bonuses: Visaalus: None GWT: 10% and 5% , 2 generations winner: GWT Car programs Visaalus: Qualify monthly $600 BMW GWT: Qualify once and car is pre paid for 18 months, Benz, BMW, Porsche, range Rover, Cadillac – $1000/month or $18,000 FERI MOSH 21K gold jewellery winner: Visaaluss is faster and easier but it replaced the commissions in early levels and it will become a cost when you don’t qualify. GWT is harder to attain but pre-paid, much better and more variety of cars and it is over and above the commissions. You decide. Other major incentives: Visaalus: Vacations GWT: Vacations, $40,000 FERI 19K gold and diamond Time piece winner: GWT Qualification requirement: Visaalus: Incentives, commissions, bonuses and ranks all require qualifications and re qualifications, GWT: Only Incentives and bonuses require qualifications ONCE. NO re qualifications winner: GWT Leadership pools: Visaalus: 1% top two levels only GWT: $10,000 BDB bonus Winner: It is unclear what the 1% mounts to be for Visaalus as it is based on CV generated that month, We call it EVEN Cycle payout : Visaalus $12,500 in CV = $300 (2.5%) cash or $600 car payment GWT: $6250 = $500 (8%) winner: GWT by a long shot Imaginary one time bonuses: Visalus $25,000 to $1,000,000, GWT none. Winner even – why even two reasons 1- It is expired (Dec 31- 2011) 🙂 2- The only person to ever win the $1,000,000 is the owner 🙂 This is where Binaries beat Visaaluss: GWT incentive plan comes out much faster off the gate for the new people with up to $18,400 in cash, product bonuses and incentives within the first 30 days. Although not as aggressive, Visaaluss also offers exciting incentives early led by the BMW club and the rising star pool. However three months in the business the upfront bonuses do not matter anymore so you want to look closely at the meat of the comp plan that is permanent. Outside all the clutter of bonuses and incentives, the main part of compensation plan that actually provides Residual income is the CV commissions PERIOD. Visaaluss’s own example below is all we need to look at to understand why Binaries are superior to uni-level plans, break away plans and matrix plans. Visaaluss example: Ambassador (one of the highest ranks) Power of three example: When you 9840 distributors each sell THREE “Balanced kit” ($49) = $1,446,480 in sales – you earn $72,324/month Generate the same sales in GWT and you earn $118,243/month which is 48% more but here is the important part: It is impressive that a good Binary plan that pays on both legs and to infinity pays a whopping 48% more than the uni-level plan. However what is even more impressive is that for the Visaaluss $72 K plan to actually come reality you need all 9840 people within the first 8 levels which is almost impossible however since all good binaries pay to INFINITY so it is very possible that you can have 9840 people in your team coming as deep as 100 or 200 levels or more. The Visaaluss plan of 9840 people with in the first 8 levels is almost a perfect world within the perfect world, which is not likely to materialize. It is yet another demonstration of charts that only look good on paper but simply cannot happen. Take a look at your team in your plan, where would your cheque be today if you only got paid to 8 levels and got flushed from Gen 9 and below every week? The most likely scenario is that you can accomplish 25% of the 9840 people at best in the first 8 levels which makes it at best about $20,000 to $25,000/month in CV income. Taking this in to consideration in the real world GWT pays out about 400% more Residual than the Visaaluss plan and the same would be true for all good binary plans that pay to infinity. Other rules that are bothersome about the Visaaluss plan which I have never seen before: BMW club program: If you read their BMW agreement you will find that the program is only on until Dec 2011 and it can be removed at anytime. Obviously the car program is still on in 2012 and perhaps it was extended another year and they didn’t update their materials but why even put this expiration date if you are confident to keep the car program long term? Now I am not a fan of car programs like Visaaluss at all and it will be the best thing if it stopped however why offer a program that is your top recruiting tool as a temporary incentive? Every MLM company has a car program and they are ALL permanent as part of their compensation plan except Visaaluss. Perhaps they know that the program will ruin many credits so they reserve the right to remove it when things get hot. Although I am not a fan of any car program that you have to qualify for every month, at least the typical car incentive is OVER and ABOVE the compensation plan. In Visaaluss when you qualify for the BMW you get a choice of $300 cash or $600 bonus only if you get yourself stock in a 3-5 year car lease enticing people specially the young and senseless to choose the BMW car payment that they may never qualify for again. I have never seen this and it makes no sense that if you want to get paid instead of the car you only get HALF of the bonus. 2- The deadline is also true with their special promotion bonuses where you can get from $25,000 to a $1,000,000 in bonuses as you climb yet another 5 levels over the previous dozen or so. Well since they started almost a decade ago, no one has ever passed level one for these bonuses in Visaaluss so again proves that many of these incentives are simply for show and not for go. Sorry … to be 100% accurate one person did make the top level and supposedly received the million dollars supposedly, can you guess who that was? The co-founder and one of the owners apparently did it and received a million dollar cheque :). I find that hilarious that the only person ever to reach the top is owner and no one else even made level two. Again to make matters worst there is an expiree date on this bonus as well, imagine working hard for years to get to the bonuses and the incentive deadline beats you to it, that would really suck wouldn’t it? Anyhow based on their downloadable documents, this promotion also ends Dec 2011 yet it is still on their compensation plan chart perhaps they need to update the chart as some people may not read the fine print that this bonus is expired. GWT has a unique car program. Although it is not as easy as other car plans, it is safe and a REAL car program where you qualify once and get the car PRE-PAID for 18 months which is again a GWT first in the industry so no pressure to re-qualify every month and get yourself in a long term lease that you might not be able to handle. Another important think to mention is the word "PROMOTION vs incentives and commissions". in over two decades that I have breaking down and creating comp plans I have never seen a company that their main comp plan selling points are not permanent commissions and incentives and are promotions. They call them "promotions" like the BMW club and the one time large bonuses because promotions end hence the expire dates. Had they been permanent like Binaries they would be called bonuses and incentives. I guess my main issue with Visaaluss is not the comp plan or even the product, it is the way they market it. Sometimes being overzealous in marketing can get you in trouble and they are in trouble even with their products in Canada. Visaaluss shakes are fine I am sure like any other good nutritional product sold by MLM companies but the aggressive marketing and much embellishment in the nutritional value and cost saving of the shakes has the company and products now under investigation in Canada by health Canada according to CBC radio broad cast. The same radio broadcast also reports that even competition bureau is investigating Visaaluss as they are not registered or approved in Canada. So if you are in a Binary plan that lost a team member to the Visaaluss hype, pass them this information so they can have a better sense of the truth with in their skillful marketing. All in all Visaaluss is a very talented marketing machine, they have done an amazing job with the way they tell the story of the cover of the book but behind the cover the inside story will tell a different tale. Now you know why Binaries beat Visaaluss and all Uni-Levels, Matrix and Break away plans. P.s. The name is misspell by design.
I LOVE the “World’s top comp plan expert” comment.. Thank you for clarifying and all the information. Wow..! As Tom said it’s really disappointing to see so much miss leading info and inaccurate information a co-founder and top earner of Visalus put out there on those videos and attacking other compensation plans with inaccurate information. This is much like the marketing techniques and the “I told you so” sign they have to prove other wrong and piss people off.
I’m glad that unlink some of these companies think people are stupid and they don’t understand or won’t find out the truth but they forget that this is an industry that creates the most leaders in the world and there are so many intelligent leaders, experts and professional networkers out there to caught all these smoke and mirror and sneaky programs a company like visalus put together that eventually will leaves lots of casualty behind, hurt families and create a bad name for the industry..! With all the shocking information with accurate numbers and details the compensation plan experts and mlm professor provided there is nothing much to say..! That is the truth right there for visalus and Vemma distributors to see and get educated..!
I wish distributors and leaders of visalus or any other company were a bit more responsible and open to educate and make decisions base on facts, logic and numbers instead of hype, smoke and mirror…! With today’s social media and technology the truth won’t stay hidden long..! Thank you Ted for providing this space for people to get informed.. When more and more leaders take a stand and hold companies accountable for their integrity one day eventually we will have a clean industry that companies operate with high level of integrity and truly an average person have a chance to accomplish financial freedom and leaders are well educated and professional networkers who are standing for their downline’s dreams and accomplishments more than anything else. As my mentor Ramin always say, “This is an industry that the more you give people what they want the more you will get what you want for your life”.